* Prabhakaran dead, war on LTTE over: Lanka (Times of India)
* Sri Lankans Say Rebels Crushed and Leader Killed (New York Times)
* Sri Lankan rebel leader ‘killed’ (BBC)
* LTTE chief Prabhakaran dead (Hindu)
* Prabhakaran shot dead while trying to break army siege: Army (DNA)
* Sri Lanka: Tamil leader has been killed (CNN)
* Tiger leader Prabhakaran killed: Sri Lanka army sources (Hindustan Times)
May Rajiv Gandhi’s Soul Rest in Peace added by SearchIndia.com on
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Btw, Some media say ‘it could not be verified’. And some here, such as Nedumaran and Vaiko [who keep themselves in touch with the LTTE supremo] claim ‘he is alive’..
Which one to believe..
SearchIndia.com Responds:
We’ll have to wait for DNA or dental analysis (as they did in the case of Hitler).
Dead Body of Charles Antony?
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/dead-body-charles-anthony
Could not believe that was Antony [age 24 years]..
SearchIndia.com Responds:
DNA analysis needed for proof as these people may have had doubles.
Doubles? meaning?
And, how a DNA analysis is performed? Would they have a DNA sample to compare, or do something?..
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. Use of Doubles (i.e. look-alikes or similar-looking individuals) is a fairly common security practice of dictators to protect themselves from assassins.
Hitler, Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein, Prabhakaran, Kim Jong-Il et al are all said to have used doubles at one time or the other.
2. As for DNA, comparison with close relatives, previous blood, tissue samples et al.
As usual, a lot of Indian Tamils (stupid, cowardly fooks, I tell ya!) are beating their chests, crying, and shangu-oodhing (conch-blowing) on NDTV, Youtube, and other sites over their “beloved leader’s sad demise.” Surprisingly, not one of these cowards ever picked up an AK-47, and took a boat to Jaffna to fight the “good fight.” Considering how the cowardly Prabhakaran armed young innocent children and was killed while fleeing instead of dying honorably, like he expected his loyal cadres to do so by swallowing the cyanide capsules that he so lovingly handed out, it’s no surprise his ardent supporters are cowards themselves.
Good riddance to bad rubbish!
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. We only hope that rumors of Prabhakaran’s death are not greatly exaggerated. (Thank you, Mark Twain.)
Even if he survives or his surviving son/daughter take up the leadership of the movement, it’s difficult to achieve their goals primarily because of donor fatigue among the diaspora, the prime funding mechanism for the LTTE terrorists.
2. As to this practice of beating their chests and bewailing their loss, we believe this is more of a lower class (meaning poor) phenomenon.
Why is it that the Tamil middle class and upper class generally don’t exhibit such practices. Is it because they think such actions are undignified putting them on par with the lower classes whom they hold in low esteem?
Do the North Indian lower classes mourn in a similar fashion over the death of family, friends and leaders?
Wonder if there are anthropological or sociological studies on how different South Asian classes mourn differently.
BTW, the Caucasians are even more restrained when it comes to displaying their emotions over the death of friends, family or leaders.
Rajapakse, didnt say a word on prabhakaran in his address in parliament today.. either India would have asked SL to play that way… or As the pro-LTTE guys in TN say he might still be alive… remember SL army made such claims thrice before.. and later rebutted.
Its not easy to capture him as he has engineered guerrilla warfare for more that 30 years.. and it is impossible to immune inch by inch in a dense forest.
This morning in Indian news channels there was a claim that the 58 division played a conspiracy by making a false call to LTTE political wing posing as some representative of international community and invited them for ‘talks’ on surrendering formalities. when these to came out with white flags they were shot at point blank. The same allegation later was made at their mouth piece tamilnet. Vaiko claims the picture shown as Charles Anthony is really not him … even tamil net dosent say a word on charlse antony.. so I think his family could have escaped well ahead .. loosing kilinochi was losing the war for them.. there was absolutely no hope… even after loosing kilinochi they had few parts of seashore controlled.. at that time itself.. ie last year nov-dec he and his family would have fled .. most probably to some african country with some piracy contacts. This is a wild guess… but I still believe this because prabakaran was so self centered and always cautious on saving himself.. so I dont think he might have been waiting all long for the army to come and crush him…
SearchIndia.com Responds:
Hard to say whether Prabhakaran escaped and what we are seeing is his body double.
Only time will tell.
Why do you think the LTTE killed Rajiv Gandhi..
You think that they didn haven enough problem already tat they assassinated him.. (i don mean to say they didn do it!)
Hope you have read enough of wat was happening then and then formed your opinion..
That does not give India any reason to turn its back against thousands of suffering innocent civilians.. Am sure how great a leader, thousands of lives forsaken for his, is not fair.. Even Rajiv himself wouldnot have approved of such cold heart..
At least if not attenuation of war we could have forced SL to allow free press from the war zone.. ” truth is the first causality of war, often…”
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. It’s believed that the decision to kill Rajiv Gandhi was taken at the highest levels of the LTTE leadership i.e. by Prabhakaran himself.
The widely held view is that assassination of Rajiv Gandhi was an act of revenge over Rajiv’s decision to send in the IPKF, which must have inflicted some damage on the LTTE. Read Wiki article for some background on IPKF.
But unless Prabhakaran left his memoirs lying around somewhere or we find a way to get into his head, it’s hard to know for certain why the LTTE chief ordered the killing.
2. You write above: At least if not attenuation of war we could have forced SL to allow free press from the war zone.. †truth is the first causality of war, often…â€
Get real. There’s no such thing as a free press in a war zone.
Propaganda is a key element of war. Who controls the message controls the thought process, the opinions on the war.
It’s naive to expect unfettered press access will happen in a war zone.
But we must never stop asking for free press access because that demand itself to some extent, albeit limited extent may act as a pressure point on the parties committing atrocities under the cover of war.
a photo of what seems to be prabhakaran’s dead body has been released and identified and confirmed by Karuna Amman …..so lets see ….though its said that he has two doubles ………hence DNA analysis should confirm the same ..
we find a way to get into his head..
we can not do that now.. he has lost a lot of his head..
http://defence.lk/videos/Praba_Body.wmv
if that is not a body double.. looks very much like his face, but not sure.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
Yes, saw that cloth or plastic piece covering part of his head.
Our best hope is for Prabhakaran’s memoirs to surface. Zhao Ziyang’s secret Tiananmen memoirs is attracting a lot of attention lately.
Who knows. One day Velupillai Prabhakaran’s memoirs too may emerge out of the void.
If you follow Rajapkse’s speech, he reiterated the old “song” the Sinhalese always sing…”King Elara (Ellalan) and the stories of invasion by the Cholas and the south Indians… To remind everyone of their never ending belief that the Tamils were actually came to the island as invaders. They still believes them (Sinhalese) as the true and only original inhabitants of the island.
Buddhist hierarchy supports this myth and does everything to keep this phenomena alive.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
Let’s wait and see what happens next in the North.
“As to this practice of beating their chests and bewailing their loss, we believe this is more of a lower class (meaning poor) phenomenon.
Why is it that the Tamil middle class and upper class generally don’t exhibit such practices. Is it because they think such actions are undignified putting them on par with the lower classes whom they hold in low esteem?”
I was obviously exaggerating over the whole “chest-beating” and “moaning.”
I occasionally accuse Vancouver Canucks fans of doing exactly that because they’re the biggest bandwagoners in the sport of hockey, but it doesn’t mean they do exactly that. A lot of Indian Tamils have come onto NDTV, IBN, and other sites and expressed remorse over his death as if he fought for THEIR freedom, and that sickens me. Did I not mention a long while back about Tamils not having great indigenous leaders or role-models to look up to? No wonder they think someone who sends kids and pregnant women to war, while he wears expensive suits and relaxes in an a/c room in London, is a hero and worthy of comparison to Bhagat Singh (how many kids and women did he strap a bomb-belt on?).
Anyway, DNA tests have confirmed that he indeed is dead and I’m sure, for Sri Lankans like shuaib68, there’ll be something else to worry about- like the existing Sinhala discrimination (and he’s already talked about it :)).
Shuaib68, I’d like to remind you that in South Africa, the ANC still sing songs about killing the “evil white man”, but I don’t think anyone really takes them serious. The King Elara song might be along the lines of such historically important songs and I think Rajapakse had his moment of arrogance. Trust me, any Sinhalese with a brain ought to know now that continuance of any further discrimination will drag this war on via skirmishes and guerilla tactics (is the war over in Iraq without Saddam?). If the Sinhalese don’t learn from 30 years of suffering, then they won’t ever. It’s time for change in Sri Lanka and I hope things change for the better.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. Right. Chest beating and bemoaning one’s fate is used to describe actions, both literal and figurative.
In the West, it’s more figurative. But we’ve seen poor Tamils do it literally.
2. It’s going to be very hard for the Sri Lankan Tamils to resurrect the insurgency on a big scale for a while. There might be the occasional skirmish but doubt it’ll rise to the level of threat posed by LTTE in its heydays.
Hopefully, there will be greater participation of Sri Lankan Tamils in the political/governing process moving forward.
Here’s Rajapakse speaking in Tamil, imploring for harmony. Doesn’t seem all that bad, but then again, he’s a politician
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKhnAKvRhHY&feature=channel
“But we’ve seen poor Tamils do it literally.”
As have I. BTW, to your question if North Indians do it, I’d recommend you watch “Rudaali.” It’s a story about a professional mourner who does the whole chest-beating and wailing thing. That said, I am yet to see this thing being done among the upper to middle-class families, North or South Indians. Since I’m a Tam-Bram, we don’t do such things anyway.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
Unfortunately, the only Kalpana Lazmi movie Netflix has in its collection is Daman.
Not even a single pro-ltte party here in TN is really mourning, either the don’t care anymore (no money from ltte anymore so why bother…) or they still believe praba is alive. Vaiko, Nedumaran and one Fr.Kaspar who are known for direct contacts with ltte are STILL saying he is alive and the video is doctored.
The people here in TN dont care a shit.. literally.
They dont think he is someone whose death is to be some kinda shock. Btw, regarding the sinhala attitude…
it looks very well like they havent leart the lesson yet,
1. when there are lakhs of people sufferring from the wrath of war, no food, water, no sanitation… down in Colombo the president is asking people to celebrate, had he asked to raise a fund to the sufferers we can say there is a change in attitude…
2. Still press is not allowed, no rehabilitation from outside is allowed.
3. UN is not allowed to visit the people, a big NO for free advices from third parties on how to treat the tamils.
SL has to correct the mistakes otherwise some form or other there will be resistance. Now they have a greater network all around the world compared to that of 30 years before, so its not remote to start from the beginning once again. let it not be ltte or praba.. some form some name, there will be fighting going on unless and until the local people decide full heartedly to stay with SL political process, but that can happen only if the politician work on bringing harmony across these two races, they have always nurtured the hatred of tamils among sinhalese to win votes… so now its in the hands of the people to decide.. esp the sinhalese.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
True, time now to help the displaced Tamils and assist in their resettlement and rehabilitation.
A very thought provoking and sensitive article. Looks like a typical gangster movie, but truth is always bitter.
http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/may/19/guest-blood-on-our-hands-but-this-too-shall-pass.htm
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. Read the above piece. We wouldn’t describe it as thought-provoking but more of a sarcastic piece with an anti-India slant.
The article seems biased in tone against India and Sinhalas.
2. What India has done in the case of SL is what other leaders/countries do all the time…follow a policy of self-interest that can dramatically turn 180-degrees. Not unique to India. Look at U.S. relationship with Afghan Mujaheddin – they were friends during the Soviet invasion but now they are deadly enemies. Look at how Bangladesh treats India now. There are probably plenty of other examples.
STR YNG LAD:Shuaib68, I’d like to remind you that in South Africa, the ANC still sing songs about killing the “evil white manâ€, but I don’t think anyone really takes them serious.
We too don’t take it seriously. But these stories are taught to their children to show that they’re superior kind opf race. They talk nonsense about their 2500 yrs of “proud history” who knows what happened in the history.
Historians are mostly, opportunistic liars. In the movie “Puli Kesi” (Vadivel’s) there’s a scene where pulikesi is being painted by an artist with his face and a body of a musle man combined to depict Pulikesi as a charismatic figure. When one of his ministers ask him why this lie…Pulikesi replies the mutts who happens to see this after 100 yrs would take it as truth. It’s very thought provoking.
There’s one opinion that appeared in Gulf news I happened to read, sounds very interesting:
Insurgents can be defeated
By Amir Taheri, Special to Gulf News
—————————–
Another breaking news:
Prabha’s entire family is found dead. His wife Madhivadani, Daughter Dwaraka, and youngest son Balachandran, all dead. It’s a very sad and a tragic end. I thought the remaining kids would survive, but this was their fate.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videoshow/4556609.cms
Insurgents can be defeated
By Amir Taheri, Special to Gulf News
http://www.gulfnews.com/opinion/columns/world/10315099.html
SearchIndia.com Responds:
Interesting excerpt from above link:
“1. Read the above piece. We wouldn’t describe it as thought-provoking but more of a sarcastic piece with an anti-India slant.
The article seems biased in tone against India and Sinhalas.”
I mentioned at the beginning of my message itself “Truth is always bitter”. It may read like sarcastic or biased but it is the grave truth.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
You write above: It may read like sarcastic or biased but it is the grave truth.
There is no such thing as the truth.
People often tend to think of truth as absolute. It is not.
Just to show how crazy, insensitive and arrogant these guys are…
The was a news item in a opinion written by someone in a Sri Lankan news paper saying that during the ongoing war to defeat the LTTE (last month), in the newly captured area the govt. forces have opened up a police station with sign boards reading only in Sinhala. Can you believe????
In another news I saw the “Wesak” Buddha’s birthday was celebrated in Killinochchi (the former de-facto rebel capital) praising the Buddhist values, while conducting indescriminate bombing of hospitals and killings on the other side few kilometeres away.
Even in the President’s speech he emphasizes the importance of Buddhist values…Bloody nuts! It is the very same Buddhist hierachy running the entire war. He’s no Nelson Mandela (A great Human being and a great statesman) Mahinda is still a hawk, because he’s surrounded by hounds and jackals like JVP (a Marxist party with a racists flavour) and the other one being the Hela Urumaya a party hell bent on attacking anything that speaks of multi racial, multi religion country.
Let us see how he’s going to convert his words into deeds. We know very much that 90% of the Sinhalese to be not accomodative to include other communities as the ‘sons of the soil’. He talks about “there’s no minority” but he didn’t clear the doubt of still sticking onto their Majority mindedness. That is why they repeat the Ellara (Ellalan story and the triumphant Sinhalese king Dutugemunu) He shouldn’t have uttered this story again and again.
During 1983 violence against Tamils, the mobs frequently used these words while destroying innocent tamils’ properties and life. They’re fascinated by this fable story.
It is a fact that those kings who lived in the history are a bunch of womanizers who spent their lifestyle raping women of choice in the name of power. This is similar to “Pulikesi” story I wrote in my earlier post.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
It’s too early in the day.
We should wait for a few months before we can determine the course Mahinda takes next.
Shuaib68: “Historians are mostly, opportunistic liars. In the movie “Puli Kesi†(Vadivel’s) there’s a scene where pulikesi is being painted by an artist with his face and a body of a musle man combined to depict Pulikesi as a charismatic figure. When one of his ministers ask him why this lie…Pulikesi replies the mutts who happens to see this after 100 yrs would take it as truth. It’s very thought provoking.”
I’ve always held this statement to be the truest thing I’ve heard:
HISTORY IS BUT A BUNCH OF LIES AGREED UPON VIA CONSENSUS.
That’s the reason I question the veracity of documents that eloquently extol the “virtues” of religious figures and kings of a particular culture/ethnic group, while denigrating their contemporaries in another.
That said, anyone with critical thinking will always question the veracity of such “myths.” I am quite happy to see this population of rationalists growing everyday, but it’s just unfortunate that these people MOSTLY tend to be Atheists and Agnostics. Still, I hope for the day the rationalists outnumber the propaganda-buying bigots.
That said, I agree with SI’s suggestion that Rajapaksha indeed be given the time and space to carry through with his promise of equality. Even if he does intend to keep his promise of equality, no matter what he does, the Tamils will never be content and you can say that for EVERY minority group in the world. Thus, I’d not be wrong if I say that Rajapakshe is NOT going to bend over backwards for the Tamils, for now he is going to negotiate from a position of strength.
In retrospect, I just wish Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi had both stayed clear from the politics in Sri Lanka. I know it’s hard with a bunch of hypocritical Tamil fools (see how they treat Dalits and Tamil Brahmins in their state) crying for interjection in the region. However, I don’t see the Swiss fighting for French or German causes ever, even though their citizens speak both languages. Sometimes being neutral has its benefits.
Joeantony said: The people here in TN dont care a shit.. literally.
I seriously doubt that. Go visit NDTV or Youtube and see the trash talk both Sri Lankan and Indian Tamils are engaging in. Then again, that’s what kozhai (cowardly) losers do…talk tough. Not surprising that none of them has the cojones to pick up a weapon and continue the “good fight” there in Sri Lanka. What these idiotic Tamils, who’re posting trash, need is someone like Shabana Azmi who brazenly stuffed that idiotic Mullah who made the plea to all Indian Muslims to fight the war in Afghanistan, on national TV. She told him she’d drop him off personally at the border so he could lead the charge and all that lily-livered @&*! could come up with was “I don’t talk to whores.” Yep, that’s EXACTLY who we need!
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. Nice comment.
2. But if humans were rational, the human condition wouldn’t be this bad (some offhand examples: tons of nuclear weapons as people starve to death, meaningless war on drugs and prostitution, corruption masquerading as lobbying in the U.S., predatory drugs pricing in the U.S., sentencing laws in the U.S. to feed private prisons ad nauseum, ad infinitum).
3. You write: In retrospect, I just wish Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi had both stayed clear from the politics in Sri Lanka
Boy, just think what West Pakistanis must be thinking for three decades. If only India had stayed clear of the politics in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) in 1971.
Geopolitics (which is the commonest defense for interfering in other countries’ affairs) is an ugly beast where interestingly the Law of Unintended Consequences comes into play more often than we’d like. Examples: We (U.S.) gave stingers to the Mujaheddin and then we got so scared they’d be used against us later that we had to pay millions of dollars to buy back the costly missiles we first gave free (Source: New York Times), India training and arming LTTE and other militants in South India (Source: Frontline) and they then presumably killed Indian soldiers using some of the same weapons and training, the killing of Rajiv Gandhi by LTTE et al.
One of these days, when we have a lot of time on our hands, we are going to compile several instances of how the Law of Unintended Consequences plays out in foreign policy.
4. Regarding the response of Tamils in Tamil Nadu, the monumental blunder committed by LTTE in killing Rajiv Gandhi in 1991 made it very difficult for most Tamils in India to vociferously declare their support publicly or materially for the cause of Sri Lankan Tamils, which until recently was spearheaded almost exclusively by LTTE).
yourmate said: It may read like sarcastic or biased but it is the grave truth.
I’ve come to this conclusion
THERE ARE NO TRUTHS, NOR GOOD OR BAD CAUSES. THERE ARE ONLY OPPORTUNITIES AND PEOPLE WHO EXPLOIT THEM.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
You write: THERE ARE NO TRUTHS, NOR GOOD OR BAD CAUSES. THERE ARE ONLY OPPORTUNITIES AND PEOPLE WHO EXPLOIT THEM.
That is the only truth. 😉
SI said:Boy, just think what West Pakistanis must be thinking for three decades. If only India had stayed clear of the politics in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) in 1971.
Yeah, I’m sure that’s the rationale for these Indian Tamils to cry about our rather cold-hearted stance on their “makkal in Ilangai.” We helped the Bangladeshis, but we cannot help the Tamils…how dare we?!!! Sure, it does help to note that if Prabhakaran had behaved like the Dalai Lama, MLK Jr., etc., we wouldn’t have seen this day and Eelam might have been a reality.
That said, one of the biggest reasons why we involved in the 1971 war was the influx of millions of refugees in our country. We really didn’t do anything even while millions of Hindus were being slaughtered, which even prompted Taslima Nasreen to comment that Hindus are so “thick skinned.” What we really did was to protect our own interests, and I’d have to say I have no problems with that. However, it give Pakistan an excuse to get more involved in the Sikh cause and Kashmir (as if those guys weren’t involved in it prior to 1971…c’mon!).
I mentioned this before, but I wonder what the average pro-Eelamist Indian Tamil has to say about Al-Qaeda sympathizers and Kashmir separatists in our country :). You ask them, they too will come up with similar reasons of oppression and discrimination for siding with these elements. However, having known Tamils to be the most anti-Pakistani elements I’ve encountered, you’re bound to hear a shite-load of hypocritical rhetoric.
Shuaib said: We know very much that 90% of the Sinhalese to be not accomodative to include other communities as the ’sons of the soil’. He talks about “there’s no minority†but he didn’t clear the doubt of still sticking onto their Majority mindedness. That is why they repeat the Ellara (Ellalan story and the triumphant Sinhalese king Dutugemunu) He shouldn’t have uttered this story again and again.
During 1983 violence against Tamils, the mobs frequently used these words while destroying innocent tamils’ properties and life. They’re fascinated by this fable story.
You know, I forgot this the first time, but it should also be noted that Periyar’s post-independence movement against the Brahmins was indeed based on a historical precedent of oppression of the “poor Dravidians” at the hands of the “racist Aryan bigots.” What happened in the aftermath was noteworthy too…
“Brave Tam-Brams who fought tooth and nail on the battle fields of Arcot and Chettinad, led by Srinivasa Iyer. Not to mention those selfless and brave ‘madi-sara Maamis’ and ‘ambis’ wearing belt-bombs and carrying AK-47s, sacrificing their life for ‘Iyer Naadu’…never giving up to the last man, woman, and child.”
Wait…that didn’t happen? Really?
P.S. I am not knocking you, shuaib. I just hope any Eelam-supporting Indian Tamil takes a minute to read what I wrote and has time to introspect (I highly doubt it). You merely gave me fodder to comment upon.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. You write above: one of the biggest reasons why we involved in the 1971 war was the influx of millions of refugees in our country
That’s hooey.
The refugees were merely a convenient excuse to dismember Pakistan. If there were no refugees, we’d have created or imported them.
Internal Indian secret communications of the period were referring to the “struggle for Bangladesh.”
As then Indian ambassador to the erstwhile Soviet Union D.P.Dhar, one of the Panch Pandavas, wrote in 1971 to Indira Gandhi’s adviser P.N.Haksar that what India must plan for:
(Source: P.N.Haksar’s papers cited in India after Gandhi by Ramachandra Guha, P.453)
Pakistan support to Sikhs and Kashmiris was a two-way traffic. Our Sikhs and Kashmiris were as enthusiastic about seeking Pak support as Pak was in extending support.
2. We do not hold the conventional view that a stereotype is offensive. Au contraire, stereotypes often contain the distilled essence, albeit an uncomfortable, frequently ugly seed. In our view, the Hindus are not so much thick-skinned as hypocritical, devious cowards, who take flight at the first sight of blood.
3. Ironically, some of the most interesting iconoclasts (not merely in the ‘idol-breaker’ sense but in the larger defier of established institutions sense) we’ve seen come from the Tamil Brahmin community.
SI Said: “As then Indian ambassador D.P.Dhar, one of the Panch Pandavas, wrote in 1971 to Indira Gandhi’s adviser P.N.Haksar that what India must plan for:
is not an immediate defeat of the highly trained [army] of West Pakistan; we have to create the whole of East Bengal into a bottomless ditch which will suck the strength and resources of West Pakistan. Let us think in terms of a year or two, not in terms of a week or two.
(Source: P.N.Haksar’s papers cited in India after Gandhi by Ramachandra Guha, P.453)”
…and Ann Coulter said “We should go into Muslim lands, kill them all, and convert the ones left alive into Christians.” Didn’t happen, did it? If I had a penny for what every jingoistic nut-job had to say about the enemy during times of strife, I’d be a multi-THOUSAND-ere (LOL!!). Bengal/Bangladesh is a cesspool now, and I don’t know if we have anything to do with it. The stupid fundamentalist Mullahs, a failed economy with nothing besides jute (what tourism?), and the once-a-year deadly cyclones do their job pretty well enough to keep them wallowing.
BTW, considering that you told Shuaib68 to give Rajapakshe space and time, despite the fact that he has gone on record and quoted anecdotes pertaining to Sinhala superiority, it’s surprising that you would bring in what one D.P. Dhar said 38 years ago and hold it against India’s policy then. I think it’s not what one says, but the outcome that’s of bigger consequence. That said, we did f**k-up with our geopolitics, but none bigger than how U.S. and Pakistan have by supplying the Mujahiddeen with arms during the Soviet era.
BTW, this is from your 1971 war article:
“However, unlike her father Jawaharlal Nehru, who was an extraordinarily well-read man and whose ideas laid the foundation of modern India,…”
What were you smoking when you wrote that, guys? He was well-read, agreed, but that doesn’t mean he had anything to do with “laying the foundations of modern India.”
It was Sardar Patel who TRULY unified India. Had this c0ck-boy Maharaja had his way, we would still be having little fiefdoms governed by Wodeyars, Scindias, Nawabs, DigVijays, and every pansy little sultan with a goofy crown on his head. He was very reluctant to see his “Maharaja-bhais” secede their kingdoms to form a united India, but thankfully, he was thwarted. In addition, thanks to him, we have a long-line of political nepotism that’s still carrying on with Varun Gandhi. Someone close to this family needs to work on the males with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch (obligatory Pulp Fiction reference).
Lastly, SI Said: “Ironically, some of the most interesting iconoclasts (not merely in the ‘idol-breaker’ sense but in the larger defier of established institutions sense) we’ve seen come from the Tamil Brahmin community.”
Who, me? Iconoclast and proud of it, man! (if that indeed was meant for me).
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. On the Tamil Brahmin iconoclast – No, we were not referring to you but to someone around these parts. Though, of course, you could be a colorful one too. 😉
2. Last we checked, D.P.Dhar was not sucking up to Sean Hannity or Bill O’Reilly on the Unfair and Unbalanced Network trying to peddle books with outrageous remarks.
True, Bangladesh is a cesspool thanks to its actions/inactions and nature’s periodic fury but India’s midwifery in its birth is an indisputable fact not a wild Coulter rant.
3. Not holding Indian action against India at all. It’s just that often when you look closely there’s invariably a big hiatus between the rhetoric and reality of citizens/leaders/nations. Further, the refugees defense you cited was a mere fig-leaf of an excuse in the light of release of private papers and documents.
4. On Jawaharlal Nehru, not to take credit away from Sardar Patel’s solid work on bringing the princely states under India’s aegis but in terms of the bigger imprint on modern India, it was Nehru’s ideas that formed the bedrock of modern India,… Whether it’s the overarching ideology of socialism, that weird non-aligned stuff, commanding heights of public sector, Kashmir, China et al, it was Nehru’s signature for good or bad.
5. You write: In addition, thanks to him, we have a long-line of political nepotism that’s still carrying on with Varun Gandhi.
Does not hold up under examination vis-a-vis Nehru. Subsequently, yes. And even in post-Nehru era, the Nehru family hardly has a monopoly on nepotism.
On your charges of nepotism against Nehru, Indira became a minister for the first time after Nehru’s death although she was elected president of the Congress during Nehru’s lifetime. But election as Congress president was not a big deal since Nehru towered over the party, with an unrivaled sway particularly after Sardar Patel’s death in 1950.
Just wanted to add this to my previous response. I wonder why you think it’s IRONIC that iconoclasts tend to be among the Tam-Bram community. Among all Tamils, we’re the ones who migrated outside Tamil Nadu, thanks to Periyar’s tactics (a blessing, in retrospect). We assimilated very well in the regions we went to and learned to bring in an un-biased perspective to our outlook. My entire family is multi-lingual. My father speaks fluent Bengali, and a lot of relatives from my mother’s side speak fluent Marathi. Compare that to any Tamilian who’s lived only in Tamil Nadu and thinks that ALL North Indians dislike them, won’t speak Hindi or any other language based on some antiquated, false political propaganda of superiority based on Aryan-Dravidian conspiracies (and not really based on choice, per se) and yet, worship fair-skinned Northie actresses like Kusu-poo and Sim-raaan and would rather die than marry a woman darker than they are.
Yes, we did suffer through odd name-calling with the “Madrasi” or “Andu-Pundu”, and we chose to fight it head-on or suck it up and succeed and then show them. Still, it is much better to be called names by a non-Tamilian, than having your own people call you names like “Iyer P**ndai” or “Pappaan.”
In the end, I have never been more proud of my community because of the way we’ve succeeded in life, without resorting to violence in the face of prejudice and disparity and have adapted to changing times. Yeah, we still do have the nagging-Iyer mom syndrome, or the endless rituals I have no belief in, or those fugly “Murugan calendars” or rexine sofas that are so common-place in Iyer homes, or the fact that we’re not united as a group, but we’ve learned to laugh at those idiosyncrasies too :).
SearchIndia.com Responds:
We’ve seen several Tamil Brahmins at very close quarters and in personal interaction, they give the impression of being iconoclastic and exhibit catholic tastes contrary to the conservative behavior one would expect from them. Perhaps, due to education and wider interaction with the outside world (with political and social circumstances compelling many to travel beyond Gummidipoondi in the North or Jolarpettai/Dharmapuri in the North-west to seek opportunities unavailable/denied to them in the state).
“it was Nehru’s ideas that formed the bedrock of modern India,… Whether it’s the overarching ideology of socialism, that weird non-aligned stuff, commanding heights of public sector, Kashmir, China et al, it was Nehru’s signature for good or bad.”
a. Without Patel, there wouldn’t be a “unified” India, so the “idea” would have remained just that…a doodle on the back of a napkin.
b. Gives plebiscite rule to Kashmir. Dumb!
c. Gives preferential civil liberties to Muslims violating the very tenet of secularism. Dumb^2.
d. Those ideologies of socialism were what led to rampant corruption in the first place, whether it’s octroi on trade or the average government babu.
e. “Commanding heights of public sector”, e.g. MTNL- Mera Telephone Nahin Lagega (My telephone won’t be installed). Enough said! You don’t want me to go off on DESU/DVB (Delhi Electric Supply Union, now called Delhi Vidyut Board). BTW, the Green Revolution, which is TRULY the acme of the “commanding heights of public sector” you talk about, came after his death.
f. Yes, he alone doesn’t have a monopoly on nepotism with Karunanidhi and his cohorts, among others, giving him ample competition, but I gotta blame the seed-giver….well, the most significant one in the history of Republic India, that is (thus exonerating Motilal Nehru :p).
That said, I agree with his NAM ideals. Gotta give the lily-livered pissant its due.
Bottomline: Patel >>>> Nehru = Gandhi’s c**k-boy. I don’t miss the “Chacha” one bit!
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. Purely hypothetical that in the absence of Patel, India would never have been united.
2. On Kashmir, we guess Nehru got us the better deal. 2/3 of Kashmir versus zero Kashmir. Don’t know about you, but we’ll take the 2/3rd Kashmir over the zero Kashmir.
3. On socialism and role of public sector (a favorite whipping boy), we’ve mixed feelings.
We believe they laid the necessary foundation not merely for an industrial India (coal, power, steel, defense PSUs) but also created a large stable middle class that could educate and send their children to the U.S., seed the private sector firms of later year et al.
4. On special treatment to Muslims vis-a-vis their personal laws, should have been stopped in 1947. They’ve sunk deeper into the mire and probably need massive state intervention now (reservations in jobs and schools/colleges??) if they have be uprooted from their ghettoes.
SI Said: “We’ve seen several Tamil Brahmins at very close quarters and in personal interaction, they give the impression of being iconoclastic and exhibit catholic tastes contrary to the conservative behavior one would expect from them. Perhaps, due to education and wider interaction with the outside world (with political and social circumstances compelling many to travel beyond Gummidipoondi in the North or Jolarpettai/Dharmapuri in the North-west to seek opportunities unavailable/denied to them in the state).”
Yeah, that’s what I said, Einstein! Talk about plagiarism! 😀 (just messing with ya!)
“Purely hypothetical that in the absence of Patel, India would never have been united.”
True, but no one else did it, so there! Even if someone else ended up doing it, it still wouldn’t have been ‘Maharaja Chacha’, and I’d be extolling that other person right now. However, Patel did it, and here we are.
“On Kashmir, we guess Nehru got us the better deal. 2/3 of Kashmir versus zero Kashmir. Don’t know about you, but we’ll take the 2/3rd Kashmir over the zero Kashmir.”
2/3rd Kashmir, standing on wobbly ground thanks to his “benevolent” plebiscite rule. Yeah, great deal, indeed! Just admit that the guy lacked the spine to say, YOU ARE A PART OF INDIA, SO GET USED TO IT, B*TCHES! (well, not exactly that way, but you know what I mean). That’s why Patel is the Iron Man (cue Sabbath riff here!) and Nehru is the c**k-boy.
“On socialism and role of public sector (a favorite whipping boy), we’ve mixed feelings.”
As do I, but I wonder if you ever experienced MTNL or DESU’s incompetence. Have you?
“We believe they laid the necessary foundation not merely for an industrial India (coal, power, steel, defense PSUs) but also created a large stable middle class that could educate and send their children to the U.S., seed the private sector firms of later year et al.”
…which also led to the BOFORS scandal, the Golden-Quadrilateral project scandals (and the killing of the IIT graduate), the cattle-cars known as AIR INDIA and INDIAN AIRLINES, the Telgi-stamp paper scandal, and so many.
I know of the Satyam scandal and Harshad Mehta scandals, among many in the private sectors too, which leads me to wonder if we as Indians are making a strong case for a tyrannical/totalitarian rule.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. You write: True, but no one else did it, so there! Even if someone else ended up doing it, it still wouldn’t have been ‘Maharaja Chacha’,
Sardar Patel was Minister for Home and States Affairs and it was his job to get the princely states to accede to the newly-independent India.
It’s only in India, when you do your job you become an ‘Iron Man.’
2. Kashmir on wobbly terrain? Let’s get real. We’ve kept Kashmir with us for 60 years and it’s not going to slip out of our grasp any time soon.
Sure, there’s always some risk and uncertainty with stolen stuff.
That said, whatever be the de jure position on Kashmir, de facto Kashmir is an inviolable part of India. Every Pakistani knows it, yet every Pakistani leader pays lip-service to the unrealizable dream of getting Kashmir. It’s just a game to placate the semi-literate Mullahs and illiterate hordes out there.
3. You write: As do I, but I wonder if you ever experienced MTNL or DESU’s incompetence. Have you?
No, but we’ve experienced the miraculous efficiencies and unrivaled competence of the private sector, both in India and the U.S.
How many hundred billions have we thrown to the private sector crooked banks and dumb auto companies in the U.S. Sorry, our calculator can’t compute in the 100s of billions.
And in India, Satyam and the stock market scams make the public sector corruption seem like a rounding error. Let’s not remind people of the extraordinary efficiencies and talent of the Indian private sector. No, we wouldn’t want to embarrass you by citing the example of the Indian auto industry for five decades (until mid-1990s).
“STR YNG LAD: P.S. I am not knocking you, shuaib. I just hope any Eelam-supporting Indian Tamil takes a minute to read what I wrote and has time to introspect (I highly doubt it). You merely gave me fodder to comment upon.”
No SYL, you’re excellent in your point of view. I think, as tamils they TN people did nothing to save so many lives by way of advising Prabha to change his ways by the very influential people who were protesting during the time of war. The film industry guys could have approached him to do some intellectual study of the whole issue.
I stumbled upon some very disturbing news in a website. I believe the stories as I know how the Sinhalese politics are. We are living with it. Please do read and post your comments:
Sri Lanka: Victory speech signals new assault on working people
By Wije Dias
20 May 2009
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/may2009/sril-m20.shtml
Sri Lankan army slaughters LTTE leaders
By K. Ratnayake
19 May 2009
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/may2009/slwa-m19.shtml
These articles confirms our latent fears about the monster that came out winning the war destroying thousands of lives.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. The two articles in the above link are wholly biased in tone.
2. You cite the story: Sri Lankan army slaughters LTTE leaders
The purpose of war is to slaughter your enemy. Hardly a disturbing fact.
Unfortunately, there is collateral damage in every war with civilians trapped in the crossfire. But determining who is a disinterested civilian in a guerrilla/ethnic war is an impossible task.
Ahh…SI, get your facts right guys!!
“No, we wouldn’t want to embarrass you by citing the example of the Indian auto industry for five decades (until mid-1990s).”
Sorry, but HINDUSTAN MOTORS and MARUTI UDYOG are run by the GOI. HM produced that shitty car called Ambassador, but Maruti really brought in a new wave of cheap, lightweight cars using the Suzuki hatchback model. It wasn’t until the Govt. opened the markets in the mid-90’s and Honda, Ford, and Daewoo came in, which propagated TATA (which had been manufacturing trucks and heavy vehicles, and doing good business) to jump into the commercial car competition.
“Satyam and the stock market scams make the public sector corruption seem like a rounding error.”
The Telgi stamp paper scandal ALONE exceeds Satyam’s by Rs. 3000 crores. I can’t imagine the kickbacks in the BOFORS and the Golden Quadrilateral Project. Sorry, but the huge-scale projects in India are still run by the public sector, so the numbers lost via scams will always be huge there.
Lasly, you said: “Kashmir on wobbly terrain? Let’s get real. We’ve kept Kashmir with us for 60 years and it’s not going to slip out of our grasp any time soon.
Sure, there’s always some risk and uncertainty with stolen stuff.”
First you say it’s not on wobbly terrain and then you say it’s stolen stuff? A thief wouldn’t waste time selling his goods to a fence because he knows his goods are a ticking time bomb waiting to be traced to him. Stick to one side, guys. IMO, Kashmir is like a lump of poop inside an attractive gift wrapper. I’d have NO problems letting Kashmiri separatists have their Azad Kashmir (not Jammu). It’s easy to shout slogans, but a totally different thing to run a nation.
“That said, whatever be the de jure position on Kashmir, de facto Kashmir is an inviolable part of India. Every Pakistani knows it, yet every Pakistani leader pays lip-service to the unrealizable dream of getting Kashmir. It’s just a game to placate the semi-literate Mullahs and illiterate hordes out there.”
There is a lot of ambiguity on this “inviolable part of India” bit and TBH, Gandhi’s c**k-boy made it sure that the “inviolable” part would be open to violation. Does it matter Pakistan knows it or not? They want retribution for 1971 and they’re relishing every moment of it. If only that c**k-boy had shut his fooking mouth…..nuff said!
Shuaib68…I am hearing Tamils rejoicing everywhere. It seems people have shown pictures of an alive and well Prabhakaran laughing at reports of his death, with a newspaper in his hand. I’ve also heard he’s in Thailand sipping beer and getting lap dances (no shit…I heard someone tell me that) :D. You know anything of a pic of him being alive?
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. You write: SI, get your facts right guys!!
Whoa. Hold your horses.
As the old saying goes – to be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant.
2. You write: but HINDUSTAN MOTORS ….[is] run by the GOI.
Premier Automobiles (a.k.a makers of Fiat/Premier Padmini cars in India) and Hindustan Motors (Ambassador cars) were the two premier private Indian auto companies until mid-1990s. (Maruti, the quasi govt company with Suzuki equity and technical collaboration, came only in mid-1980s)
Just because a company has Hindustan in its name does not make it a PSU or a govt company. Hindustan Motors is not the same as HMT (erstwhile Hindustan Machine Tools).
You might want want to educate yourself by reading this backgrounder on Hindustan Motors.
3. Right, Kashmir is not on wobbly terrain in any real sense and yes, we also say it’s stolen stuff.
No contradiction there. Because of the circumstances surrounding its accession, its Muslim majority and questions over the legitimacy of Kashmir being a part of India, there is bound to be some intense skirmishes on Siachen or surrounding areas and insurgency activity.
So there’s always some risk and uncertainty with stolen stuff but as we said earlier we don’t see Kashmir becoming part of Pakistan any time soon.
4. You write: A thief wouldn’t waste time selling his goods to a fence because he knows his goods are a ticking time bomb waiting to be traced to him.
So, who’s a fence gonna peddle his stuff to. India will put up with this insurgency on Kashmir as it has for decades.
A small price to pay, in the view of Indian foreign policy planners and the political leadership, for the vale. What’s the alternative – a free and fair plebiscite with all its attendant risks?
STR YNG LAD: Shuaib68…I am hearing Tamils rejoicing everywhere. It seems people have shown pictures of an alive and well Prabhakaran laughing at reports of his death, with a newspaper in his hand. I’ve also heard he’s in Thailand sipping beer and getting lap dances (no shit…I heard someone tell me that) :D. You know anything of a pic of him being alive?
Haah…haaa… That’s a good story…He must be enjoying sunshine in Pattaya…
Re: Tamils being happy
Maybe, most tamils suffered due to his crazy project leading nowhere. He must be a person to be killed anyway. But, he was a by-product of Sinhala racism. Also, Tamils have no protectors now and then. Now they’re more vulnerable than before so, they need to pretend to be happy about his demise. Otherwise, how can you expect to win the hearts of the sinhalas.
What they’re saying is that minorities came into the country as invaders and they should keep their mouth shut and not talk anything. This what the army general , the sworn racist who told the press on a previous occassion and stirred a controversy. Will such a peson adhere to Geneva principles when attacking the tamils???
Finally, we have to live with the uncompromising animals who kill people and then with the same breath talk of the 2500 yrs of their history.
In the meantime, until a natural reaction befallen on these animals, let’s have a coke!
“Premier Automobiles (a.k.a makers of Fiat/Premier Padmini cars in India) and Hindustan Motors (Ambassador cars) were the two premier private Indian auto companies until mid-1990s. (Maruti, the quasi govt company with Suzuki equity and technical collaboration, came only in mid-1980s)
Just because a company has Hindustan in its name does not make it a PSU or a govt company. Hindustan Motors is not the same as HMT (erstwhile Hindustan Machine Tools).
You might want want to educate yourself by reading this backgrounder on Hindustan Motors.”
Okay, you got me there! (sheepish grin). I was wrong about Hindustan Motors. I thought the fact they were still making that ugly behemoth called Ambassador, they HAD to be a public sector undertaking. Little did I know that Birla’s would be THIS lethargic when it came to R&D. Thanks for the info.
BTW, Maruti Udyog became a complete GOI undertaking sometime during late 80’s- early 90’s (and I’m positive about this), and they removed the SUZUKI from the title for a long time before Suzuki came on its own into India in the late 90’s. The earlier versions of Maruti Suzuki vehicles became a much sought after vehicle, once the GOI took over, because of their imported parts. In fact, my parents owned the first of the 80’s models in 1985 for 55,000 rupees and sold it in 1997 for 85,000. Imagine that!
Regarding Kashmir: “we don’t see Kashmir becoming part of Pakistan any time soon.”
Well, Azad Kashmir-ists want an Azad Kashmir, which means they are autonomous and don’t want to be a part of India or Pakistan. Talk about being delusional, but one has the freedom to do so.
“What’s the alternative – a free and fair plebiscite with all its attendant risks?”
That’s a risk I’m willing to take. I say, give them their independent Kashmir (and while we’re at it, Nagaland and even Tamil Nadu, if Mr. Vaiko or Karunanidhi think secession is the answer to all of Tamizhagam’s problems). Yep, send all these freedom-lovers/terrorist-sympathizers over, seal the border shut, and sign a total non-interference accord- which means no refugee status, no entry, no aid,…absolutely nothing whatsoever, come hell or high water.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. You write above: BTW, Maruti Udyog became a complete GOI undertaking sometime during late 80’s- early 90’s (and I’m positive about this)
Well, today’s Economic Times says Suzuki has a 54% stake in Maruti.
2. For the foreseeable future, Kashmir, Tamil Nadu, Nagaland et al are going to stay with the mothership.
STR YNG LAD:I’ve also heard he’s in Thailand sipping beer and getting lap dances (no shit…I heard someone tell me that) :D. You know anything of a pic of him being alive?
No, I haven’t heard of. First hearing this story. Must check if it’s true (I mean the story).
There;s no question that he’s dead. Some people can’t believe that their Hero is dead.
For Shuaib68:
Here’s another article from the same site by Bill Van Auken
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/may2009/pers-m21.shtml
No wonder the LTTE-supporters who are Sri Lankan and Indian Tamils think that the SLG will be tried for war crimes. But, boy…now that I think of it, sending the IPKF was the biggest mistake we ever did as a result of the Indo-Lanka accord. The more I read about its accounts in the island, the more my face meets my palm
http://in.rediff.com/news/2000/mar/23lanka.htm
(a very extensive and unbiased account, including J.N. Dixit’s assessment)
Shuaib said: “But, he was a by-product of Sinhala racism.”
That’s obvious and I have mentioned this to every Sinhala I’ve talked to, and they’ve not denied it either. Then again, individuals are rational and intelligent, but people (i.e. when they’re in a group), they behave stupid.
Shuaib said: “Also, Tamils have no protectors now and then. Now they’re more vulnerable than before so, they need to pretend to be happy about his demise. Otherwise, how can you expect to win the hearts of the sinhalas.”
I’m pretty sure they’ll find a whipping boy to beat the snot out of. That’s what Periyar did. He got pwned by the British, so he chose the next soft-target…the Brahmins who were in the British’s favor. Right now, Indian Tamils are making themselves look real bad, calling every person who dislikes the LTTE a “stupid North-Indian”, and not to mention previous faux-pas like Vaiko’s “blood river” promise or Karunanidhi’s “flip-flopping act.” They should know better considering the spotlight is on Tamils around the world right now and by behaving in this manner, they’re going to be reviled by other Indians who will see them as unpatriotic and secessionists. Plus they’re just fueling the fires that feed other bigoted organizations like Maharashtra Navnirman Sena or Karnataka Rakshana Vedike.
So yeah, if you ask me, shutting up when it comes to spewing ethnocentric rhetoric, might be the best thing to do right now. They’re in no position to bargain.
Shuaib said: “What they’re saying is that minorities came into the country as invaders and they should keep their mouth shut and not talk anything.”
That’s what non-Brahmin Tamils said to the Brahmins when they took away their jobs and excommunicated them from society. Payback’s a b*tch, huh?
Shuaib said: “This what the army general , the sworn racist who told the press on a previous occassion and stirred a controversy. Will such a peson adhere to Geneva principles when attacking the tamils???”
Do you mean Sarath Fonseka? Whether he adhered to Geneva principles or not will be known once UN steps in. There’s still that $1.9 billion aid that’d being held right now.
Shuaib said: “Finally, we have to live with the uncompromising animals who kill people and then with the same breath talk of the 2500 yrs of their history.”
What if the Chozhas had won that war between Dutugemunu and and Elaezha Chozha? I’m sure things would be different and modern day Tamils would be extolling about how the great Chozha king stuffed him like a turkey. Plus, what’s stopped the Pallavas, Pandyas, and Cheras from helping the Chozha king in trouble? Oh right, they were busy fighting each other. If these 4 clans couldn’t unite under one Tamizhagam, they have only themselves to blame. Sorry, but Tamils constantly carp over how their prosperous kingdoms were defeated by invaders long, long, long ago. Tough luck guys, but you should’ve fought better. Shit happens, and that “happening of shit” is called history.
Seriously though, for the sake of a united and peaceful Sri Lanka, both the Sinhalese and the Tamils have to stop carping about this account. The first one to do so gets the early bird prize of being the wiser one.
STR YNG LAD:Seriously though, for the sake of a united and peaceful Sri Lanka, both the Sinhalese and the Tamils have to stop carping about this account. The first one to do so gets the early bird prize of being the wiser one.
GOOD THOUGHT!
Nice infomations. I came to know about lot of things which I didn’t know about Tamil’s internal issues in TN (historical infos). Thanks.
Yeah, I was talking about Sarath Fonseka.
BTW, I had a nice friend of mine, Brahmins, called Ramesh Sathyamurthy. They were living in Colombo, our neighbours. Nice, decent people. They were in Sri Lanka for decades and in 90’s they left for India. Mostly, due to worsening condition due to tamil/sinhala problem. I don’t know how to locate him now. He’s a nice fella.
I give the credit of nicety to all the brahmins I see due to their relationship with us.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
You write: I give the credit of nicety to all the brahmins I see
Oh, no. You have no idea how vicious and vengeful some of these devious Brahmin monsters can be if provoked.
SI: Oh, no. You have no idea how vicious and vengeful some of these devious Brahmin monsters can be if provoked.
Yo! I’m a wounded bear licking my wounds. Let it heal and the scar go away…(Haaa….haaa)
They’re good as long as we’re good to them….I follow SI’s gem: Life is short, no need to hate anyone, no time for petty things….Aameen!
SearchIndia.com Responds:
🙂
Offtopic: Here’s one of our favorite Tamil songs – Machchaana Paaththeengalaa (from YouTube).
SI Said: “Oh, no. You have no idea how vicious and vengeful some of these devious Brahmin monsters can be if provoked.”
We’re such a dis-united group, and that’s probably because we try to subterfuge the efforts of other Brahmins, so you’re not wrong. Probably Iyers and Iyengars would’ve fought if they were the people in a “FREE UNITED BRAHMANA-NAADU.”
That’s the reason why I think “Intelligent Design” or the existence of a “Omniscient Creator” is such a asinine “scientific theory.” It’s obvious we’re not intelligent because of the way we live and no “chosen ones” or “damned ones” among us are heading to some bullshit concept of heaven or hell. If a creator indeed create us then he/she is probably kicking his/her own ass right about now.
We’re merely an evolutionary cul-de-sac waiting to exterminate ourselves and become worm food.
BTW, shuaib, here’s something new from Rajpakse:
http://www.ndtv.com/news/world/rajapakse_wishes_ltte_chief_was_caught_alive.php
I had a good laugh when I read that :D. As if someone with political ties in the highest levels of government would ever be left alive to stand trial? I think Rajapakse, in his victorious stupor, thinks the people he’s talking to are stupid.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
Un ‘fu**ing” believable that many Americans in this day and age not only believe in this Intelligent Design cockamamie nonsense but also want it to be taught on par with or ahead of Darwin’s theory of evolution. Indians definitely don’t have a trademark on stupidity.
“StrYngLad74 Said: BTW, Maruti Udyog became a complete GOI undertaking sometime during late 80’s- early 90’s (and I’m positive about this)
SI Replied : Well, today’s Economic Times says Suzuki has a 54% stake in Maruti.”
Maruti started out as a Public sector Behemoth like IOC, BPCL, BHEL, HPCL, ONGC etc. Govt of India as part of its dis-investment policy divested its majority stake to Suzuki Motors about 5-6 years ago (Like how it did to VSNL which was acquired by TATA). Do you guys know Maruti was the Pet project of Sanjay Gandhi.
Slightly offtopic Sanjay he was widely tipped to succeed Indira as he was a political firebrand and was closely associated with his mother. He was very famous for his compulsory Castration (Nasbandi) advise during Emergency (It was called MISA Act). Incidentally Janata Party Member Lalu Prasad Yadav was so opposed and to show his defiance (Or manliness) impregnated his wife and named his daughter MISA. It is another story that he has 8 more children (2 sons and 7 daughters).
Varun exhibited some of his father’s character through the hate speech he gave recently.
StrYngLad74 : Unity among Brahmins is definitely not there, the same generally holds good for Tamilians as a whole. There is a Koundamani Dialogue “In Tamilnad all are Etappans. Oru Vada nattu Raja avando aala katti koduthatha there is no history or geography (Of course Koundar does not know about Jaichand)”
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. You write above: Do you guys know Maruti was the Pet project of Sanjay Gandhi
Yes, this is what we wrote in our profile of Sanjay Gandhi a few years back:
2. MISA is now a doctor.
yourmate said: There is a Koundamani Dialogue “In Tamilnad all are Etappans. Oru Vada nattu Raja avando aala katti koduthatha there is no history or geography (Of course Koundar does not know about Jaichand)â€
Yes, Jaichand indeed helped Ghouri overthrow Prithviraj Chauhan, but I blame Prithviraj Chauhan for trying to be noble and letting Ghouri go scot-free after he pawned his sorry-ass the first time. There’s a message here- Do your job well and pull no punches, and even the so-called Etappans can’t do diddly-squat. Had Prithviraj made an example out of Ghouri, no one would have dared to commit treason against him. The failure of the military supremacy of Tamil kingdoms (and other Indian kingdoms) in the face of invasion cannot be blamed on Etappans and other traitors. I just think they were either militarily incapable of defending themselves, not ruthless enough to strike fear, made the goofiest monarchical or military decisions at the most critical times, or a combination of all. I mean, look at how poor intelligence cost the IPKF the war and almost nearly cost us the Kargil war. They still plague us today.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
You write: I mean, look at how poor intelligence cost the IPKF the war
The only consolation: Once we (India) knew a quagmire lay ahead, we cut our losses and beat a hasty retreat.
Now, look at the U.S. There are more than 58,000 names on the Vietnam Veterans Wall in Washington DC. These soldiers died in vain. They fought in a war that ended not in victory but in a shameful defeat for our country (U.S.). And as those who read history know, many of the U.S. soldiers survived the jungles and Viet Cong guerrillas and came home only to be reviled by the local peaceniks.
Sometimes in war, as in life, beating a retreat is not cowardice but a smart move 1) To stay alive and fight the battle another day and 2) Cut your losses and wait for a more opportune time/move on.
watch the link to know abt the man who thinks himself as che-guevara of tamilnadu
http://www.aftab1.com/2009/03/vaiko-prabhakaran-photos-released-by.html
dont you think he must be crushed under a roller?
SearchIndia.com Responds:
You and your stupid rollers.
proud2bindian: People like Vaiko don’t need to be crushed under rollers. They ought to stay alive and be subject to humiliation, that’s their punishment. Thanks to his vocal rhetoric, Vaiko has shown to the entire nation that he is yet another “Veetula Puli, Veliyila Nari” (A tiger in his backyard, jackal on the outside) kind. He promised a “rattha aaru” (blood river) if Prabhakaran was harmed one bit. We’re still waiting for the so-called “aaru” and it’s been 5 days since his death. I’m sure one “moothram aaru” (urine river) definitely flowed in Vaiko’s dhoti when he learned of Prabhakaran’s demise.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
One small change suggested – Veliyila Yeli.
Yes, it’s fantastic to see the Sinhalese people dancing on the streets of Colombo, celebrating and having a grand old time whilst the rest of us cry over our dead family members. The bodies of dead Tamils are still lying all over the battle zone and they’re celebrating. Yes, this is a great beginning for a unified Sri Lanka.
Yes, the LTTE have been defeated, we’ve been given sources that inform us that Prabhakaran is still alive. And he’s claimed before that if they were to lose the war then they would retreat back to their guerrilla methods. He has also said that he would never let the government get a hold of his body, he would burn himself first. But in war things happen unplanned and only time will tell what will truly take place.
It’s up to the Tamil Diaspora now to fight for our people who are imprisoned in government controlled internment camps. It’s because of our continuous global protests that the international community is starting to take notice. They’re counting on us. The fighting may be over, but the discrimination and the human rights violations against the Tamil civilians are going to continue, regardless of what Rajapakse says.
Investigative journalist John Pilger in my opinion puts it very well.
“The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) have spilled their share of blood and perpetrated their own atrocities. But they are the product, not the cause, of an injustice and a war that long pre-date them.â€
If the state is committing violent acts against you, (e.g. 1983 states sponsored riots which my family were victims of) are you going to just sit there and take it? No you’re going to try every method possible to get justice. You’re going to ask for your rights, ideally in the ahimsai route. But if the state continues to inflict violence, then what do you do? You resist them. And that is what the LTTE has been doing. This war is not about the terrorist acts of the LTTE, this is about State terrorism.
And if the fighting has stopped and the Sri Lankan government has nothing to hide, then let foreign aid and the media in. Oh wait, they have to burn and hide the evidence of all the civilians they’ve killed. I think my family is one of the thousands being disposed of as we speak. Luckily the International community is starting to see through the SLG façade.
Rajiv Gandhi’s blood drenched soul will continue to have difficulty resting in peace due to the atrocities his army committed under his command in the North-East. Sonia Gandhi may have lost her husband, but due to her involvement in the war and by turning her back on the humanitarian crisis, she has made many women widows. Her soul won’t find peace either. Let the ghosts of thousands of Tamilians haunt her, Chandrika and Rajapakse. Hell if it were me dead instead of my sister, I’d divide my ‘haunting time’ between Rajapakse and Sonia equally.
Read the John Pilger article here:
http://www.newstatesman.com/asia/2009/05/sri-lanka-pilger-british-tamil
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. You write: it’s fantastic to see the Sinhalese people dancing on the streets of Colombo, celebrating and having a grand old time whilst the rest of us cry over our dead family members.
That’s the tragedy of the human soul. So many of us have little concern for our fellow human beings even in their darkest moments. Tamils have a right to be concerned over images of Sinhalas dancing in the streets and declaration of a holiday.
The death of every civilian in war is a monumental tragedy but such is the beast of war.
2. But if the LTTE had not held captive thousands of Tamil civilians as a human shield, so many lives could have been saved. This is an undeniable fact and the LTTE’s monstrous crime against Tamils in this instance cannot and must not be ignored.
3. Read the above piece by John Pilger.
There’s no doubt that the SL Govt is preventing relief agencies from accessing the camps. The New York Times also had a piece on the issue on Saturday: Sri Lanka Ignores Calls by Aid Groups for Better Access to War Refugees
The SL govt’s argument is that it is ‘screening out suspected Tamil Tigers in the camps.’ Whether we like it or not, there is some logic to that argument. But that’s not an argument that can be used for more than a few weeks. Let’s wait for a few weeks.
Already we see some bad omen from the moment the victory speech has delivered by one of the Jackals ruining the lives of the minority communities as a whole. The speech itself is one of the biggest “JOKES” of these guys. The repetition of the Elara story is itself speak volumes about their disguised plans.
We know very much about these guys. They’re one of the dumbest race on the planet earth living in the 21st century. They’re not ready for anything, just bluffing with their loudest voice thinking that they can fool the world once again. The left party JVP already blowing the “SANGU” (bad omen) for devolution saying it would be a waste if it was given after winning the victoriously. The blood shed would be in vain if power is devolved. This is their stand. And…the merry go round will start…govt. will bring a package (Half heartedly, as always) and the other racist parties will oppose and this drama will go on for another decade or so until the new generation of revolution walk into the scene to win rights for the tamils.
I would suggest you to read the following article, a fine detailed analysis:
Nation building: opposed concepts and aims
http://www.thesundayleader.lk/20090524/FOCUS.HTM
The article appeared in one of the newspapers who lost it’s founder, editor Lasantha Wickramathunga in a cold blooded murder by the govt. affiliated hit squads for trying to reveal secret arms dealing by the President’s brother, Gotabhaya Rajapakse, the foul mouthed defence secretary.
The following link has an article about the chief architect of the destruction of LTTE.
A TRUE BELIEVER (Gotabhaya Rajapakse)
http://www.thesundayleader.lk/20090524/profile.htm
shades of grey said: “we’ve been given sources that inform us that Prabhakaran is still alive.”
“This war is not about the terrorist acts of the LTTE…”
Denial is not a river in Egypt. Maybe you and your family were not asked to “donate a child or a pregnant woman” for fighting the “good fight.” Bawl all you want, there’s ample evidence of LTTE committing atrocities on its own people.
shades of grey said: “it’s fantastic to see the Sinhalese people dancing on the streets of Colombo, celebrating and having a grand old time whilst the rest of us cry over our dead family members.”
Yeah, it looks horrible from your perspective, but look at it from the perspective of the average Sri Lankan Sinhala, who was just as much a victim of terror as you say the average Sri Lankan Tamil was. If Prabhakaran had annihilated the Sri Lankan army to victory and made the SLG acquiesce to his demands for a separate state, we’d have seen exhilarated Tamils on the streets in “Independent Eelam”, India, and the world over. You’d have joined in the fun too…don’t deny it!
shades of grey said: “If the state is committing violent acts against you, (e.g. 1983 states sponsored riots which my family were victims of) are you going to just sit there and take it? No you’re going to try every method possible to get justice. You’re going to ask for your rights, ideally in the ahimsai route. But if the state continues to inflict violence, then what do you do? You resist them. And that is what the LTTE has been doing. This war is not about the terrorist acts of the LTTE, this is about State terrorism.”
Oh right, as if the whites in S. Africa didn’t have a state sponsored agenda to marginalize and terrorize blacks and other minorities, the British had no agenda of marginalization and subjugation of natives in India (remember the Jallianwalla Bagh massacre?), and the Ku Klux Klan, which had its roots deep in the U.S. state and federal government, didn’t lobby to keep the blacks segregated and living in fear? You act as if Sri Lankan Tamils are the only ones who went through state-sponsored subjugation and discrimination.
Surprisingly, Mandela, Gandhi, and MLK Jr. didn’t find the need to chuck a pipe bomb or fire a gunshot to fight for their causes. That’s why the world respects them and Prabhakaran is considered a terrorist.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. You write above: Surprisingly, Mandela, Gandhi, and MLK Jr. didn’t find the need to chuck a pipe bomb or fire a gunshot to fight for their causes
If Mandela, Gandhi, and MLK Jr. had embraced violence, would they have achieved their ends earlier?
Would violence have been justified given the oppression their people were facing?
2. You write: That’s why the world respects them and Prabhakaran is considered a terrorist.
Is pacifism in the face of naked, vicious aggression a laudable technique as opposed to a young rebel hurling a Molotov cocktail at the motorcade of the oppressor?
Let’s see how the oppressors responded to the three leaders.
Gandhi was dismissed as a half-naked fakir, Mandela was thrown in jail for 20+ years and MLK was killed in the prime of his youth.
Bottomline, pacifism is not a virtue under all circumstances.
Even Gandhi for all his espousal of non-violence recognized that and said that given a choice between passivity and violence, he was for violence. Here are some examples of how Gandhi was not always for non-violence in his own words.
– Gandhi writing in Young India, Nov 4, 1926.
Gandhi made a similar argument in favour of violence to prevent rape of a woman, writing in Harijan, March 1, 1942.
BTW, both arguments are cited in the book Gandhi By Ronald Terchek P.207
Ironically, while Gandhi was willing to condone violence at the retail level (individual) under some circumstances, he insisted on adherence to non-violence at the wholesale level (country) under all circumstances. Look at Gandhi’s behavior after the violence at Chauri Chaura.
Great though he was, Gandhi was human and demonstrated all the frailties, contradictions and other oddities in decision making associated with man.
SI Said: “Let’s see how the oppressors responded to the three leaders.
Gandhi was dismissed as a half-naked fakir, Mandela was thrown in jail for 20+ years and MLK was killed in the prime of his youth.”
Talk about weak arguments, that’s a prime example. So Gandhi was called “naked fakir” and Mandela jailed for 20 years, and MLK shot (by fellow BLACK MEN, mind you!)…big surprise! The oppressors behaved like oppressors, and that’s why we call them oppressors. What’s your point? Why not look at the big picture…
Gandhi is revered as Father of our Nation, is on our currency notes, has a public holiday in his name, and revered the world over and was the inspiration for MLK Jr.
Mandela became the leader of South Africa and is also revered the world over for his non-violent resistance.
MLK Jr. also has has a public holiday in his name and is also revered the world over for his non-violent resistance.
Talking of frailties: MLK Jr. was also known to be a promiscuous man engaging in orgies, Gandhi’s racism against Blacks and his “experiments in self-control” are also well-known, and probably Mandela has some publicized frailties I am not aware of (he did have this issue with his wife, Winnie, whom he ultimately divorced). However, it’s the bottom line that matters and the bottom line is that these people are RESPECTED ALL OVER THE WORLD FOR THEIR NON-VIOLENT RESISTANCE…..even by people who constituted as their oppressors earlier. End of discussion!
On that note, probably Prabhakaran’s reign of violence in Sri Lanka might form the groundwork for the Sinhala majority’s change in stance when it comes to discrimination…who knows? He will definitely be eulogized and lauded among Tamils as a martyr, but I doubt if he’ll get the respect universally that the above 3 got.
SI said: “Ironically, while Gandhi was willing to condone violence at the retail level (individual) under some circumstances, he insisted on adherence to non-violence at the wholesale level (country) under all circumstances. Look at Gandhi’s behavior after the violence at Chauri Chaura.”
What he was talking about was self-defense when he condoned violence, and he insisted on adherence to non-violence on a whole-sale level because it takes the shape of blind rage. It’s the difference between a white man protecting his family against a black criminal (or vice versa) using violence and a bunch of white folks slaughtering a black neighborhood in the aftermath of violence. As someone who really doesn’t like all of Gandhi’s principles, you have to agree he was being smart by not advocating wholesale violence. That’s a man who knows an INDIVIDUAL is clever and sensible, but PEOPLE are stupid and blind!
That said, as per the wikipedia article, Gandhi regretted his role in encouraging the Chauri Chaura massacre and never did we see any armed revolt encouraged by him. What did Prabhakaran ever regret killing his own people or strapping their kids and women with weapons and bombs? 25 plus years, and he could have turned a new leaf ANYTIME during that period and yet he didn’t. Sorry, but that’s why he gets called a “terrorist” and a “despot” because everyone knows his legacy of terror on his own people, which neither Mandela, nor Gandhi, nor MLK Jr., nor armed revolutionaries like Bhagat Singh, or Chandrashekhar Azad, or Subhas Chandra Bose, EVER committed. Case closed!
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. You write above: The oppressors behaved like oppressors, and that’s why we call them oppressors. What’s your point? Why not look at the big picture…
We are looking at the big picture.
No, we are not questioning that Gandhi, MLK or Mandela are revered for their non-violent stance. That’s a given.
What we’re saying is that given the abject nature of human nature, very few oppressors are swayed by nonviolence or appeals to that enduring baloney of ‘goodness that resides in all humans.’
So, the question we posed in the previous response was whether non-violence is really a worthy ideal under all circumstances and should we always glorify or revere its adherents.
2. You write: the bottom line is that these people are RESPECTED ALL OVER THE WORLD FOR THEIR NON-VIOLENT RESISTANCE…End of discussion!
Sure, Gandhi, MLK and Mandela are respected worldwide but so are Washington, Che, Tito, Mao, Lenin and so many others who chose the violent alternative.
It’s not the end of the discussion but the beginning of whether opposition should be violent or non-violence and under what circumstance should the doves cross the Rubicon.
3. You write: Gandhi is revered as Father of our Nation, is on our currency notes, has a public holiday in his name, and revered the world over and was the inspiration for MLK Jr.
So are Washington and Lincoln on our currency notes, who were apostles of violence when it came to achieving their goals (worthy, we may add).
4. You write above: MLK shot (by fellow BLACK MEN, mind you!)
You really need to abandon this fanciful notion of pliable facts.
MLK’s killer James Earl Ray was not Black. He was White.
5. You write: he insisted on adherence to non-violence on a whole-sale level because it takes the shape of blind rage.
Wholesale violence is never blind rage all the time. Au contraire, guerrilla wars, conventional wars or battles are carefully plotted gameplans. Since Indian Independence is ex post facto now, it’s moot whether violence could have delivered our deliverance earlier if Indians had chosen the non-Gandhian way.
Maybe Gandhi’s genius lay in recognizing that given the heterogeneous population of India, it’d be difficult to forge a united violent front against the British who excelled at divide et impera and would have quickly pitted one Indian group against the other. All this discussion is moot ex post 1947. One can only surmise.
6. True that previous generation of revolutionaries whether Che Guevara, Bhagat Singh et al eschewed the path of non-violence but they were not psychotically brutal like Prabhakaran who forcibly recruited child soldiers, strung a noose around their neck in the form of a cyanide pill or around their body in the form of bombs and unleashed them on to the body politic. Prabhakaran’s ill-fame arises not from his resort to violence (hardly new to human nature) but that he seemed like a modern-day version of Ivan the Terrible or Caligula.
SI Said: “MLK’s killer James Earl Ray was not Black. He was White.”
Accepted. I confused his assassination with Malcolm X’s, who was gunned down by members of Nation of Islam, i.e. fellow black Muslims.
SI said: “So are Washington and Lincoln on our currency notes, who were apostles of violence when it came to achieving their goals (worthy, we may add).”
We might have thought of them differently if it ever came to light that they did the same what Prabhakaran did. That said, both Washington and Lincoln fought armies of the British empire and the Confederates. There is really no account of mass-scale terrorism on civilians being exacted under their command. However, it’s hard to say what really happened considering it’s easy to forge chapters in history that lack reliable eye-witness accounts.
That said, had Prabhakaran kept his struggle (violent or otherwise) focused solely on SLA and not extended it to affect innocent civilians, Sinhalas and Tamils alike, I would’ve seen him in a different light.
SI said: “it’d be difficult to forge a united violent front against the British who excelled at divide et impera and would have quickly pitted one Indian group against the other. All this discussion is moot ex post 1947. One can only surmise.”
Not a bad hypothesis, considering we were engaged in violence amongst ourselves soon after the British left. Had we won our independence using violent means, it might have been worse than the partition-era violence and other such instances we know of OR we might have grown so tired of the violent struggle against the British that we might have unified much better than we currently are right now. We don’t see the Danes, Swedes, Icelanders, and Norwegians killing each other today, despite being descendants of the vicious Vikings.
The following article sheds some light into the present political scenario in the aftermath of the defeat of the LTTE.
“The Past of the Tiger and the Future of the Lion” by Tisaranee Gunasekara
http://www.island.lk/2009/05/24/features12.html
oh …i was on leave and missed out this …
SearchIndia.com Responds:
We thought you were in mourning. First, the BJP defeat and then the rout of the LTTE.
BTW, there are conflicting reports on the survival of Thambi’s wife and the two younger children.
SRINIVAS, you didn’t know that PirapÄkaran is dead?!
SearchIndia.com Responds:
He probably meant the post not the news itself.
In any case, he’ll let us know tomorrow.
Getting Pammal K Sambabtham tomorrow from Netflix. There’s chatter on the net that Akshay Kumar’s forthcoming Kambakht Ishq is a remake of Pammal K Sambabtham.
i meant the post ..
Bad news ..yes ..
congress now cannot hide behind the left parties ….nevertheless the country will lose five more years ….if that’s what people want then ….
I am happy in the sense that Third / fourth fronts have been wiped out and there was no Hung Parliment .
Even as the elections were going on Naxals hijacked a train in Bihar/Jharkand ….this is how the govt provides security …..there is more to come in the next five years
the fact that Manmohan was not able to choose his cabinet is a indicator of things to come …
Unfortunately Majority of the indians dont understand what performance means …most are illiterate and those who can …are not willing to devote the amount of time required to understand that….
LTTE’s defeat is bad news again ……Rajapaksha cannot deliver on his promise as he does not have sufficient numbers and neither does he intend to do so ….media is still not allowed free access ….SL has been refusing Aid from International agencies even now ….starvation deaths have been reported in the camps
An opinion on the present status quo in Sri Lankan political scene:
Prejudice, racism, xenophobia, and conspiracy theories ad infinitum
http://www.thesundayleader.lk/20090531/renaissanceman.HTM
SearchIndia.com Responds:
Read the above piece.
Prejudice, racism, xenophobia are not unique to Sri Lanka.
Humans everywhere display these traits with the only differences being a matter of degree and the extent to which the force of law keeps these undesirable elements under control.