Â Terrorists Strike Mumbai Again
With a hitherto little known outfit called Deccan Mujahideen claiming responsibility for the November 26, 2008 attacks in Mumbai, the big question is who are these whackos?
Frankly speaking, we (and most Indian media sources too) have nary a clue who these maniacal killers are (the idea behind this post is to see if we can get other readers to contribute whatever they may have heard on this outfit).
Obviously, given their name the Deccan Mujahideen is an Islamic militant outfit.
We doubt Deccan Mujahideen is a completely new outfit because the resources required to launch a terrorist operation of this magnitude is likely to beyond the reach of a new-born organization.
There are at least twenty terrorists armed with grenades, AK-47 guns and other small arms. Media chatter that they came in via boat adds credence to suspicion that some of them could even be foreigners.
There are also reports that Deccan Mujahideen could be closely connected with the Indian Mujahideen, whichÂ had issued a warning a few months ago of an impending attack on Mumbai.
But given that Mumbai is a teeming metropolis of 16 million people, it’s very difficult to launch a preemptive strike without strong intelligence, always the achilles heel of Indian law enforcement.
While India is a secular country in theory and at least mostly in practice, Indian Muslims have lately been feeling greatly estranged from the mainstream for various reasons -Â their low socio-economic status has left them embittered as other groups have prospered in India, a growing feeling that their religion is under attack in a largely Hindu India, rise of Hindu religious forcesÂ and involvement of Pakistani secret service ISI and other foreign militant groups.
The attacks by Islamic groups in India could also be a strategy to increase the bitterness between the majority Hindu community and the Muslims and widen the gulf between them. Whether that strategy will succeed only time will tell.
Although the first bunch of Islamic terrorists in India (mainly in the disputed Himalayan state of Jammu & Kashmir) were Pakistanis, Chechens, YemenisÂ or Muslim from other countries, lately the terrorist attacks in India have been of the homegrown variety, i.e. the local boys have taken over.
Terrorists Strike Mumbai Again
Heads Must Roll; Fire IB Chief P.C.Haldar
Most likely a front for ISI.
Several of the attacks in the past year have been attributed to other home grown groups besides SIMI, haven’t they?
ISI is probably finding it beneficial to propagate the idea of a large number of country bred terrorists.
You write: Most likely a front for ISI.
Possible considering that the terrorists are said to have come by boat.
I think things are getting out of hand everywhere. Mainly, the govts. must address to agitations and problems faced by the disadvantaged groups in the society lest they will be forced to be cornered and this could drive them to do mad things, the things which are inhuman by any standards.
A balanced approach is thus always safe and prevents many a problem that were to spring out of nowhere.
Ooh god it has happened again. How many more blasts? How many more innocent lives?.
Wake up ooh morons!!get up above petty politics and religious indifferences.
When will our country become democratic. When will they stop acting pseudo Secular.
SI : Although the first bunch of Islamic terrorists in India (mainly in the disputed Himalayan state of Jammu & Kashmir) were Pakistanis, Chechens, Yemenis or Muslim from other countries, lately the terrorist attacks in India have been of the homegrown variety, i.e. the local boys have taken over.
These people trained local Kashmiris and they were the ones leading the fight ..responsible for Ethnic cleansing of Hindus …etc … Locals dominated over foreign Militants …hence the Govt adopted a two prolonged strategy …. kill any foreign militant (dont capture them ) ….for Local militants …capture them (dont kill them) and then use them for Counter – Insurgency operations …This strategy worked very well .. Once Local Militants stopped …Foreigners found that they could not carry on any longer …without local support …so then there were elections held and so on …
These people keep changing names …only to avoid being detected ..
Its good that Advani & Manmohan both are coming together to Mumbai to visit the area ..its a show of solidarity ….whether it translates into anything tangible at the ground level ? ..only time will tell
SI : Indian Muslims have lately been feeling greatly estranged from the mainstream for various reasons
Tell me one country where Muslims don’t feel so ..except for Islamic Countries …they have a problem even with UK / America ….despite all that they have achieved in life after migrating there …the real question is not thier socio-economic status …Muslims arrested in the recent blasts in India were ..software Engineers …doctors etc …they all fell for the propaganda …that World is against Islam and their religion is under threat ? 9/11 suspects were pilots
When they get educated ….they become more lethal ..and use the knoweegde for all wrong things
God (if any such creature exists) knows where all this will end.
We can’t underestimate the capability of humans to inflict pain upon themselves.
Rightly said shuaib, there is a great deal of discriminations left in many states (like MP, Orissa, Rajastan, gujarath) against muslims, christians and backward communities and the govt always acting for holding up their positions and political advantages and never have addresssed these issues, the solution is not increasing heads in ATS or counterterrorism rather in solving the social discriminative issues…
close shave…..i was supposed to catch gitanjali express on 25th from kharagpur to mumbai (my hometown),which reaches CST at around 9:30 pm the next day,but is invariably late by an hour or so….i couldnt get a confirmed ticket so i had to postpone it….don’t even want to think what could have happened otherwise….
Wow. That’s what they call a providential escape.
It is now emerging that Deccan Mujahiddeen is a red herring. Some of the caught terrorists have claimed they are from Hyderabad (India), but their accent reveals that they are from Faridkot, Pakistan.
We’ll know for sure in a day or two. By now, the Indian police must have started shoving their chilli-powder laced lathis up the captured terrorists’ you-know-what. All we need to do is wait a few hours for the chilli powder to take effect before the scumbags spill the beans.
In the U.S., CNN & Fox News have been giving almost continuous coverage of the Mumbai Terror attack with frequent live excerpts from their Indian affiliates IBN and NDTV respectively.
“there is a great deal of discriminations left in many states (like MP, Orissa, Rajastan, gujarath) against muslims, christians and backward communities and the govt always acting for holding up their positions and political advantages and never have addresssed these issues”
Now this kind of statements can only come from a literate moron. The backward classes or segregated groups are always and have been “poor” people. So as a democratic country india should look into these issues not religion or some minority crap.
“As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy.” Abraham Lincoln
The above poster is responding to a comment made by Joe Antony (see three posts above this one) yesterday.
Aditya, glad! One of my best friends was supposed to be on flight 93 on September 11, 2001 to attend a job interview.. but the previous day or so he got a better job and cancelled his plans.
Not sure if you are a fan of Lilja Nott Doorarinsdottir. Netflix has StrÃ¡karnir okkar (Eleven men Out). Maybe, we’ll watch it.
BTW, Aditya, we wonder if you know that ÃžÃ³rarinsdÃ³ttir is a new avatar of …
[Below comment in quotes refers to a point made by Joe Antony earlier]
â€œthere is a great deal of discriminations left in many states (like MP, Orissa, Rajastan, gujarath) against muslims, christians and backward communities and the govt always acting for holding up their positions and political advantages and never have addresssed these issuesâ€
How is this remark Relevant here ??… A Tamil Brahmin faces discrimination in TN … With more and more reservations all upper castes are facing discrimination in India … Pandits were driven out of Kashmir … Check what is happening in Tripura …Are Christians or Backward Communities or upper castes indulging in this kind of nonsense ???? …
Forget India …What kind of Discrimination are Muslims facing in UK ? America or Europe ?????
The hard fact is Muslims have a problem with :
Western World – (read Christians)
Israel – (read Jews)
India – (read Hindus)
Phillipines / Thailand ( read Buddhist)
Who is left now ???? – Everybody is against Muslims ??? EVery body is Against Islam ??? – Yet you are all good people and other are responsible ??
You write: What kind of Discrimination are Muslims facing in UK ? America or Europe ?????
In the U.S., Muslims do not face much overt discrimination but most likely they are being monitored covertly by the security agencies like FBI, NSA et al.
SI, the problem with Muslims has always been about assimilation. I think every Muslim worth his/her salt knows that evolving to assimilate in today’s society means to eschew some of the teachings of their holy book to fit in. Here’s an excerpt from a yahoo news article
“Sir Syed Ahmad Khan, founder of the Anglo-Mohammedan Oriental College at Aligarh in 1877 believed that the downfall of India’s Muslims was due to their unwillingness to embrace modern ways.”
I wonder if anyone notices the assimilation of Sikhs in Indian society. Not too long ago, these were people who were targeted by Indira’s regime, turned militant and were finally subdued. Still, despite their very small population and discrimination by the politicians and common folk alike (Sardarji jokes) that exists even today, they still work hard and carry that enterprising spirit that helps them succeed. Is it any wonder why you never see Sikhs begging? Same goes for the Zoroastrians who are probably the most successful of the religious minorities. Pray why don’t Muslims take a page out of a book from the Sikhs and Parsis? This is why (another excerpt from the article)
“Still, many South Asian Muslims insist Islam is the one and only force that can bring the subcontinent together and return it to preeminence as a single whole. “We [Muslims] were the legal rulers of India, and in 1857 the British took that away from us,” says Tarik Jan, a gentle-mannered scholar at Islamabad’s Institute of Policy Studies. “In 1947 they should have given that back to the Muslims.””
“LEGAL” rulers? Does anyone remember a legal precedent namely, “Muslim Invader vs States of India” ever occurring?
The entire article can be found here:
Interesting piece (actually a Time magazine piece reproduced on Yahoo).
But the authors of the above Time magazine article also write in the same piece:
We’ve always believed that gross disparities between sections is not healthy for society. Some disparities are inevitable because of different capabilities and efforts.
But gross disparities (like for example the Muslim situation in India or the case in the U.S. where CEOs make tens of millions and some hedge fund barons reap over a billion dollar in annual benefits when there’s strong resistance to raising hourly minimum wages for working Americans – less than $7 per hour now) strikes us as harbingers of societal strife eventually.
When we used to live in India many years back, we found that most of the auto mechanics were Muslims. Some of these small auto shops used to employ very young Muslim boys (aged between 8-13), who were slapped around for not quickly handing a tool to the mechanic.
It was a Dickensian world of poverty, distress and exploitation for those little Muslim boys.
We doubt that things have changed significantly in India even now.
Some have argued here that educated Muslims are no different in responding to the siren call of Jihad, but our hypothesis is that with large scale prosperity in their community, Muslims will be less likely to offer themselves as cannon fodder.
This is not to condone Islamic violence but to repeat ourselves – gross disparities are harbingers of eventual societal strife.
Satya : “Now this kind of statements can only come from a literate moron. ”
read this article, definitely not from a literate moron
Again, there are millions of muslim youth are uneducated, have no clue of future.. obviously could fell prey to the extemists/jihadis… there is no point in increasing border security and hight end security equipments… remember US was thinking only the army/security power would make the safer until 9/11/2001 …then they realized its not possible just to secure your country but to clean the roots from where they come from…
I have travelled widely in India and have witnessed the discrimination… you being a ignorant urban amul baby and I aint a literate moron..
S.I. : In the U.S., Muslims do not face much overt discrimination but most likely they are being monitored covertly by the security agencies like FBI, NSA et al.
Dont you think that itself is a great discrimination?
Just because one follows Islam, they are under inspection ….?
It is discrimination but one that doesn’t impact Muslims unless they attempt to engage in or plan violent activities.
Joeantony: “read this article, definitely not from a literate moron
Well, This article proves that he is one. Why doesnt this cry baby talk about millions of Kashmiri Pandits who have been ethnically cleansed out of their homeland.
bunch of Hypocrites and nothing more.
“I have travelled widely in India and have witnessed the discrimination”.
Are you a travelling salesman selling a product or Christian missionary ?. According to me both are same.
some good articles by francis Gautier a french journalist.
Read both pieces.
Gautier may have been born a Christian but this guy is more Hindu (figuratively speaking) than any other Hindu we know if we go by his vitriolic pieces.
But to each his own and Gautier’s pieces are interesting even if you don’t agree with them.
We also read some other pieces on his blog. We don’t agree with his attack on Ramachandra Guha.
We think the below excerpt from the Ram Guha piece by Gautier is pure hokum:
SI Said: “Weâ€™ve always believed that gross disparities between sections is not healthy for society. Some disparities are inevitable because of different capabilities and efforts.”
Disparity and financial gaps are what drive the economy. Seriously, why would a factory worker work if he had all the money he needed (philosophically speaking, there’s never an end to human greed)? If everyone was rich enough to own factories, who would work in them? Can you tell me how many Arabs actually “work” or “study” in the Gulf nations? The Qatar board of education came scrambling to our Engg. Education department to help them CREATE an Engineering Curriculum (what year are we in?) because their kids (Arabs) were not interested in higher education, because they simply didn’t need it.
It’s a simple case of supply and demand. The economically well-off employ the ones who are not so well-off to keep the wheels turning.
SI Said: “When we used to live in India many years back, we found that most of the auto mechanics were Muslims. Some of these small auto shops used to employ very young Muslim boys (aged between 8-13), who were slapped around for not quickly handing a tool to the mechanic.”
First of all, being an auto-mechanic is nothing to be ashamed of. How many Sikhs do you see as CEO’s? Not many. As a raised Delhi-ite, most Sikhs I were taxi & bus-drivers, auto-mechanics, and owners of small establishments like dhabas, fruit shops, confectionary stores, and the like. None of these jobs would be classified as “prestigious” from an Indian viewpoint (probably, even today), or high-paying. However, these are honest jobs and these people were proud to do whatever they did.
As for the slapping part- don’t you think one needs to look at how hypocritical the Muslims are despite their concept of Umma? First of all, if it was a Muslim mechanic, the Muslim helper-boy is being slapped by another Muslim, is he not? Why aren’t parents sending these kids to free Govt. schools if they don’t have money (My mother has a Ph.D. after she spent 12 grades in a corporation school in Madurai)? Everyone knows that a lot of these kids are sold by their own parents to race camels in Dubai or if they are girls, they’re sold to rich Arabs as “brides”?
I have never heard of an instance when Sikh or Parsi parents sold their daughter to someone due to abject poverty.
SI Said:”Some have argued here that educated Muslims are no different in responding to the siren call of Jihad, but our hypothesis is that with large scale prosperity in their community, Muslims will be less likely to offer themselves as cannon fodder.”
You may be right with this because in USA the Muslims were the most assimilated in the Western World. However evidence has suggested that even economic stability doesn’t deter American Muslims from falling prey to Jihad. I read a story on JihadWatch.org of a Palestinian earning $350,000 per year, married with kids to a white American, and still aided terrorists financially. CAIR, a rather influential organization in USA, is known to provide assistance to Islamic terrorists as was divulged by Walid Shoebat (former PLO). Let’s also not forget the presence of ECONOMICALLY WELL-OFF doctors and software engineers among the terrorists responsible for bomb-blasts earlier this year in India. Add them all together, and you’ll notice that the Global-Jihadists and their sympathizers are running out of excuses for their actions.
My dear apologist, please do look at countries like Iran, Indonesia, Egypt, and Sudan that have a rich history of oppression of religious minorities that lasts even today. I’m lucky to have known and gained insights from Baha’i’s from Iran and Christians from Indonesia, Egypt, and Sudan who’d tell you that all it needs is an excuse for them to oppress them and destroy their places of worship. Baha’i’s have no right to higher-education or practice their religion in Iran even today. Christians in Iran practice their religion in UTMOST SECRECY. My Christian friend from Indonesia regaled me with tales of Muslim mobs threatening their community to leave Java and move to Bali. Fascinating, isn’t it?
Truth is that the only CERTIFIED religious terrorism in the world today is ISLAMIC**. History has been witness to their relentless subjugation and near-elimination of cultures and religions, rivaled only by the Catholics and their Inquisition. While science, the industrial revolution, and reasoning (over faith) saved the Christian world from the dark ages and spurred economic growth, the Islamic world is still mired in medieval thinking. There has been no scientific contributions from the Islamic world in the last 200 years, whereas the Western world pulled one “rabbit” after another out of the scientific “hat.” The world around the Muslims has progressed rapidly, leaving them in the lurch and they’ve looked upon the rest with mistrust and apprehension since because they simply REFUSE TO ASSIMILATE (read my previous post). It’s not the mistrust from the rest of the world, but their own fears that are being reciprocated.
Do us all a favor and read some history before you hobble out on your apologist’s crutch.
(**One can point fingers at LTTE as a religious terrorist unit, but in all sense, it’s an Ethnic Tamil outfit that despite its Hindu leader, has had Christians (Anton Balasingham) in high-ranking posts.)
1. Let’s repeat what we said earlier to provide quick context for others. We wrote earlier:
The operative words here are gross inequalities.
We agree – Disparities are what drives ambition and motivates people to strive harder. And when we said, Some disparities are inevitable because of different capabilities and efforts, we implied that not all disparities are bad. Only gross inequalities because when the chasm between two groups grows too wide, it creates a sense of hopelessness in the deprived community that things will never change. At that point, they tend to feel that since nothing is going to change anyway let me go for the kill (sadly, literally).
2. As for the few Muslim auto mechanics we encountered, none of them seemed to have that much business.
We strongly believe that when Hindus know a merchant/service provider is Muslim, there’s a reluctance to do business with him (this rule probably does not apply in dealing with Muslim whores). Without patronage from Hindus in a country that’s roughly 85% Hindus, it’s hard for Muslim businesses to thrive. So many Muslim businesses (Azim Premji excepted) don’t prosper.
We have not seen the same reluctance of Hindus in dealing with Sikh, Parsi or Christian businesses.
In the U.S. too, we’ve seen a similar attitude of Hindus toward Muslim businesses whether you go to Oak Tree Road in Edison (NJ) or Jackson Heights in NYC. Seldom do you see Indians (read Hindus) patronising Muslim stores or restaurants (it’s harder to make out the Bangladeshi restaurants in Manhattan so you might see some Indians there).
3. Leading from the above point, was it the frustration of poor economic returns from their business that impelled the Muslim mechanics/small businesses to treat their Muslim employees (read children) badly…who when they grow up would probably do the same to their employees creating a vicious cycle – hard to say with certainty but the hypothesis definitely sounds plausible.
4. We’ll let Joe Antony address the points you raise regarding his comment.
@ Joe Antony
Dont you think that itself is a great discrimination?
Just because one follows Islam, they are under inspection â€¦.
Take it Positively … if you are not involved ..nothing to worry … but those involved ..will get caught … you can take this as a opportunity to help / Co-operate with the police ..
The problem here is Overt / Covert support / Sympathies of Muslims …with these terrorists ..hence the pain ..
Would it not be a good thing if you help …and your Hindu / christian/Jewish Brothers are saved ???? – Maybe not ???? .. your sympathies lie elsewhere …
hence ” Inconvenience” becomes “Discrimination”
To understand the real meaning of Discrimination … look at laws of ISlamic Countries :
confession by non-muslim not admissible as evidence ..
Can you practice your religion freely in these countries ??? if your practices contradict with those of Islam ?? .
Such people should not complain …when they come to other countries …otherwise don’t come ..stay in your own world
Joe, You are arguing at the wrong place at the wrong time.. especially after it has been established( ?) that these bastards are not even Indians.
Are you a victim of discrimination?
SI, Erna ÃžÃ³rarinsdÃ³ttir is Anita Briem’s mom.
I thought Anita was pretty in “Journey to the Center of the Earth 3-D”.. I stumbled upon this weird name when I was googling her.. Apparently this is a common name in Iceland! Freaks!(apologies to Icelandic readers.)
So don’t blame me if “StrÃ¡karnir okkar” turns out to be horrible.
Off topic…Had been to Wal-Mart this morning to check out the Black Friday response..saw the Redbox DVD kiosk there…seems decent…$1 for a day’s rental. Didn’t rent any today but we might one of these days. At least a shorter drive compared to Blockbuster.
There was space to enter a coupon code on the screen…since we are desis after all, we’ll look for the coupon code online first and then rent something there.
What day did you say was free – Tuesday?
SI Said: Only gross inequalities because when the chasm between two groups grows too wide, it creates a sense of hopelessness in the deprived community that things will never change. At that point, they tend to feel that since nothing is going to change anyway let me go for the kill (sadly, literally).
Is the Muslim business community the only one hit by such “gross inequalities”? I seriously doubt it. A lot of non-Muslims are also affected by these inequalities and they don’t decide to strap on a bomb and blow some “kaffirs” up.
SI Said: We strongly believe that when Hindus know a merchant/service provider is Muslim, thereâ€™s a reluctance to do business with him (this rule probably does not apply in dealing with Muslim whores). Without patronage from Hindus in a country thatâ€™s roughly 85% Hindus, itâ€™s hard for Muslim businesses to thrive. So many Muslim businesses (Azim Premji excepted) donâ€™t prosper.
I have to assume that Hindus in India do not do business with Muslims probably because,
a. A sense of mistrust whether a Muslim will rip-off a kaffir (OR) use the money for propagating their religion.
b. A long millenia of oppression suffered at the hands of Muslims, which probably still tastes bitter in many a Hindu’s mouth. This probably could explain their exception towards whores because the act of “doing business” with a Muslim whore makes them feel superior, in a way of getting back at those atrocities.
c. The whole beef-eating thing
From a personal stance, I don’t recall going to a Muslim-owned store in India, simply because I never really asked the name of the person I was dealing with or his religion. I could’ve gone to one and didn’t even know. Muslim-owned restaurants were obviously out of question because while growing up I was raised vegetarian. However, whenever I’ve visited a Muslim’s store or restaurant in the USA, I’ve always had to encounter a “Are you Muslim?” question. I cannot remember an incident when a Hindu store/restaurant owner asked me my religion in India or USA. Have you? The last time a Bangladeshi store owner asked me that, I had to retort, “Does it really matter?” I don’t know about you guys, but this kind of stuff annoys me.
That said, my parents recently did a major re-decoration of their house in Delhi through a Muslim contractor who did a splendid job and came highly-recommended through 4 Iyer families who used his services. Like you said, there are always exceptions.
1. You write: Is the Muslim business community the only one hit by such “gross inequalities”? I seriously doubt it. A lot of non-Muslims are also affected by these inequalities and they don’t decide to strap on a bomb and blow some “kaffirs” up.
Tis’ true that there are other communities (like sections of Hindus) who suffer from severe deprivation but religion is not a factor there.
We think a strong sense of gross inequalities/socio-economic deprivation coupled with Islam (currently going through a siege mentality worldwide) is prompting some Muslims to engage in horrific acts of violence.
Irrespective of what might be the trigger for their violent impulses, no one is condoning violence here and its deadly impact on the innocent victims, family and friends.
2. We’ve been asked by Muslim grocery store owners (think they were Pakistanis but not 100% sure) occasionally whether we are Muslims. But for the most part, in the U.S. we shop at South Indian grocery stores or at one of the Patel Brothers outposts because they usually have most of what we want including all those esoteric snacks like muruku as well as those Dosa, Idli, Upma mixes & pickles that smaller Indo-Pak stores might not carry.
http://www.insideredbox.com/redbox-codes/ is a good link for a bunch of codes that work once/credit card..
Monday is free –
http://www.redbox.com/Help/Signup.aspx. Sign up for the SMS Network. the coupon code is only sent to the SMS .. not the email
Redbox probably didn’t factor in “desis” when they opened up this Monday promotion.. we are diligent in returning it the very next day to avoid penalty.
SI said: Weâ€™ve been asked by Muslim grocery store owners (think they were Pakistanis but not 100% sure) occasionally whether we are Muslims. But for the most part, in the U.S. we shop at South Indian grocery stores or at one of the Patel Brothers outposts because they usually have most of what we want including all those esoteric snacks like muruku as well as those Dosa, Idli, Upma mixes & pickles that smaller Indo-Pak stores might not carry.
Oh great, then it’s not just me. Wonder if these nut-jobs want to know if you’re a Muslim just so they could give you a special discount (isn’t that a violation of business laws?) or recruiting more minions for their ever growing army of dolts.
Yeah, Muslim-owned stores suck major ass when it comes to stocking Indian items. They never seem to have ingredients that “normal” Indian stores have and they also tend to stock that shitty-tasting Shan masala and namkeens from Pakistan that are absolutely “blechh”!!! However, the Shan and National pickles are pretty good brands. My friend and I joke that we’re funding terrorism by buying these brands.
SI said: We think a strong sense of gross inequalities/socio-economic deprivation coupled with Islam (currently going through a siege mentality worldwide) is prompting some Muslims to engage in horrific acts of violence.
Looks to me like desperation in the face of enlightenment towards their dogma. However they may claim to be the fastest growing religion through conversion, it’s obvious that it’s their propensity to breed like rabbits that is responsible for their proliferation. It’s a losing battle they’re fighting in a world that’s demanding more reason and thought over blind faith and fairy-tales, and this is being displayed by their overt aggressiveness to establish themselves.
I can’t wait to sit on my lawn chair while sipping a cup of good Darjeeling tea while I watch such medieval and arcane dogmas implode on their own stupidities.
You write above: it’s obvious that it’s their propensity to breed like rabbits that is responsible for their proliferation
Actually it’s not just Muslims, there are some sects of Jews like the Hasidic Jews (a.k.a. chasidic Jews) that try to outbreed the rabbits and even Catholics have been encouraged to produce cricket teams within the family.
According to Wiki:
But even if all the male Jews in the world were to start reproducing, they’d still find it hard to catch up with Muslims.
To those of you interested in furthering your knowledge of rabbit breeding and possible connections to Muslims, Jews or Catholics, here’s a link to the American Rabbit Breeders Association.
Please let us know if your researches yield any interesting connections to the homo sapiens.
Impressionistic evidence suggests that Hindu birth rate might actually be going down. Maybe, the Hindus also ought to sign up for a life membership to the American Rabbit Breeders Association. They have a husband and wife combination membership (serious, no kidding) for just $30.
Husband & Wife Combination Membership – How appropriate! Just what Hindu couples need to learn to multiply.
On that multiplication note, we’ll now subtract ourselves from this post and go watch Dil Chahta Hai. 🙂
Let me give you some information about the Sri Lankan side of the discrimination. In Sri lanka there are many schools run by the Govt. of Sri Lanka where they provide free education to students (Free Books, Free classes, etc.) The constitution guarantees that the law is equal to all citizens of Sri lanka.
But, the Sinhala majority has made everything reserved only for them technically/practically although there should be no discrimination on race or religious lines, according to the constitution. What these Sinhala politicians and the officials are doing for nearly half a century is denying the others (Mostly, the muslims) some of the basic provisions that is crucial for their development and improvement as a social group.
Most of the Govt. Schools are branded as Buddhist schools and they take only Buddhist children into these schools. Some of these schools are located in the locality where Muslims are living in large numbers but they don’t get any places in these schools. They sometimes take .001% Muslims children on some recommendations but are given stern rules to follow their dress codes which are contrary to the Muslim culture. This has forced many Muslim children to go to Muslim designated low quality govt. schools in distant areas. The education level in these schools are very low and lack many basic facilities.
There are other discriminations as well, like not permitting the setting up of businesses in some prime areas of the cities and towns which are ruled by de-facto local Buddhist temple monks, who are very racist and never allow the minority communities to even set up a business or to purchase any property. They can’t even hire or lease a property in these areas. There is a place called KADAWATHA in the western province about 10 KM from Colombo which is very strictly following this type of Apartheid system.
Muslim children are deprived of many state sponsorship of many things that the Sinhalas get normally and without any effort or without any merit. University is another race based ideological centre.
So, when you do all these things, what do you expect from these victimised people??? How will you go about saying “Nation Building” and “United Sri Lanka” and their other lopsided slogans.
Crazy bastards never learn a simple factor of human psyche. They finally end up creating wars and destruction by trying to follow the “Live and Let Die” policy, in actuality everybody dies and no one gains a shit.
What you address is Sri Lanka is not very different from what happens in Iran with Baha’i and the handful of Zoroastrians and Jews that do remain. Maybe you ought to read on how Islamic governments sideline certain religious minorities in lands they hold the majority in.
Still, I am curious to know what is the prescribed dress-codes in the schools you mentioned that are so “contrary to Muslim culture.” It’s not like they’re asking students to come in naked, are they? I don’t exactly hear a lot of hullabaloo in Turkey where Govt. officials are strictly prohibited from explicit display of religious affiliation through their outfits. This includes wearing of burkha or hijab or growing beards and wearing caps.
BTW, this is the information I gathered from Wikipedia, and you can correct me if I’m wrong:
“Girls’ uniforms may differ from school to school, however all uniforms are a white single piece frock. The differences may include the dress having short sleeves or no sleeves and having a collar or not. Most girls schools require their students to wear a tie.”
Now, putting aside partisan-Sri Lankan politics and speaking STRICTLY in terms of school dress codes- The kind of outfit I mentioned above doesn’t seem all that DIRTY and UN-CULTURAL to me. That’s basically what I saw in Delhi’s private schools, only more color-coordinated and stylish. Govt.-funded schools and the rare private schools like DTEA (Delhi Tamil Education Association) School, DAV School, Guru Harkishan School (Sikh-run), etc. usually required salwar-kameez like outfits for girls. Combined with their choice of colors for the uniform (a very blue-collar look), these schools’ students were among the worst-dressed in the city.
Again, eschewing Sri Lankan partisan politics and speaking STRICTLY in terms of a school’s dress-code- if a school has one, it must be adhered to as per rules. No exceptions. The whole point of UNIFORM is that EVERYONE dresses the same way with an aim to eliminate any kind of distinction between students (at least that’s my understanding). How can you justify that Muslims be given the right to seek different kind of outfit in whatever school they go in, when the notion itself is AGAINST the concept of UNIFORM?
Now to your second part of your paragraph
“This has forced many Muslim children to go to Muslim designated low quality govt. schools in distant areas. The education level in these schools are very low and lack many basic facilities.”
I am perplexed here. Were there NO MUSLIM PRIVATE SCHOOLS to counter the lack of Govt. spending on education of non-Buddhist children? I know you mentioned that Muslims were not allowed to have any property set-up in Buddhist-controlled sectors, but did you not even have a ‘decent’ school in areas where the Muslims were in majority? Why don’t I buy that? Here I was, thinking that Saudi Arabia funds large-scale global prosletyzing of the religion and building of mosques in many nations worldwide. Isn’t it rather pathetic that the House of Saud’s focus is not on providing top-quality educational institutions for its UMMAH in Sri Lanka? It is.
You woefully ranted:
“So, when you do all these things, what do you expect from these victimised people???”
Strive harder and succeed amidst the odds, would be my answer. Have you seen the state of Tamil Brahmins in Tamil Nadu, who are victims of the same apartheid system you mentioned? They are also mostly segregated to their “Agraharams” and are denied education by the skewed “affirmative action” system in Tamil Nadu. These folks never even had or have the luxury of the Saudi money that Muslims have had and yet, they have fought by out-willing and out-lasting the system that oppresses them by succeeding in their lives. EDUCATION AND KNOWLEDGE, not strapping bombs or picking up AK-47’s, have been the weapons of the average Iyer and Iyengar to combat their situation, even in the face of Karunanidhi’s openly flaunted message “Pappanudai Poonalai Arruppom” (We shall cut the sacred thread of these Brahmins).
Your subtle attempt at justifying violence at innocent people when being disadvantaged is FAILURE OF EPIC PROPORTIONS and sheds more light on the thought-process of even a moderate Muslim (I presume) like you in times of duress, that is inherently entrenched in medieval and hate-filled ideology.
Here’s a little information on how a so-called moderate Islamic nation like Malaysia offers religious freedoms:
“In April 2006, local authorities demolished several Hindu temples to make way for developmental projects. Their excuse was that these temples were “unlicensed and squatting on government land.” ONE OF THESE TEMPLES WAS 107 YEARS OLD. IN ONE INSTANCE, THE AUTHORITIES DESTROYED THE TEMPLES AND BURIED THE IDOLS ON SITE.”
When was the last time a government of a non-Islamic nation OFFICIALLY sanctioned the destruction of existing mosques on grounds of illegal-squatting??
Didn’t a certain Global-Jihad’s apologist (Shuaib68) have issues with the APARTHEID GOVERNMENT IN BUDDHIST SRI LANKA? I’d like to know if this Apartheid Government did ever OFFICIALLY sanction the destruction of “illegally-squatting” mosques in his country and then bury the Koran on site.
You write above: When was the last time a government of a non-Islamic nation OFFICIALLY sanctioned the destruction of existing mosques on grounds of illegal-squatting??
We’ve always believed destruction of the Babri Masjid mosque in 1992 was done with the tacit approval or connivance of the Narasimha Rao government.
Sure, a mere belief does not rise to the level of fact.
BTW, the Liberhan Commission – which has been examining the demolition of the mosque for the last 16 years – has received 47 extensions so far.
We’ve given up hopes of seeing the Liberhan report in our lifetime.
SI Said: Weâ€™ve always believed destruction of the Babri Masjid mosque in 1992 was done with the tacit approval or connivance of the Narasimha Rao government.
Sorry, SI, but TACIT APPROVAL does not equate with OFFICIAL, which is the keyword in my argument. You ought to stop displaying this DHIMMITUDE.
The Malaysian authorities did those things using an OFFICIAL SANCTIONED AUTHORITY, which their Sharia influenced laws allow them to. Was a bill was ever passed in the Parliament or in the Ayodhya municipality to LEGALLY APPROVE the destruction of the mosque? Was the planned destruction by religious nut-jobs aimed at clearing the ground for DEVELOPMENTAL PROJECTS? I don’t think so. In that very context, the Babri Masjid destruction (well, to be fair, the mosque was not razed to the ground) is not comparable to what happened in Malaysia. In fact, when the Masjid was attacked, many temples in Pakistan and Bangladesh (especially in the latter) bore major brunt of Muslim reprisals. Somehow it’s surprising that I never heard Buddhists destroy any mosques when the Bamian Buddhas were detonated in Afghanistan. Shuaib68…anything of that sort happen in that APARTHEID BUDDHIST STATE of your origin????
Here’s another news to chomp on: The Bhadhar Kali Mandir in Lahore, as of June 2008, was going to face OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED DESTRUCTION to build residential quarters. This temple is 2000 years old and is of significant historical and archaeological importance in the sub-continent. I’ve pored through some forums where educated Pakistanis have called for saving the temple, probably only for its historical importance, but called for it nonetheless. I don’t know if the AUTHORITIES (read: Local Government) went through with their plan.
1. You write: Sorry, SI, but TACIT APPROVAL does not equate with OFFICIAL
But in reality there’s no difference in terms of the end result.
Whether the mosque’s destruction happened because of an officially sanctioned order or because the powers that be were asleep at the wheel (as PVN was literally & figuratively at the moment of destruction) or turned a nelson’s eye (more likely), the destruction of Babri Masjid opened the pandora’s box and unleashed a new lethal strain of communal virus that has completely vitiated the atmosphere since then and heightened tensions and distrust between Hindus and Muslims in India.
The roots of the heinous Dawood Ibrahim-sponsored 1993 Mumbai blasts can also be traced to the destruction of Babri Masjid.
To defend the Indian government’s supposed secular credentials – as against Islamic states like Malaysia, Pakistan or Bangladesh – because the destruction of Babri Masjid was not officially sanctioned is like the American interrogators claiming that if they do not “have the specific intent to inflict severe pain or suffering,” it’s not torture.
Both arguments fail the laugh test.
2. You write above: You ought to stop displaying this DHIMMITUDE
Supporting the rights of minorities in the face of growing aggressive actions by the majority Hindu community or laying out the facts is not appeasement.
Bear in mind that we’re not saying Muslims should be primus inter pares only that they should be unus inter pares.
Never underestimate the Hindu propensity to pour oil on rising flames.
You silly dumb StrYngLad74,
Did I ever condone the killings under any slogan?
You can bark till the cows come home but you are part of the gang who labels anybody who is against the capitalist thugs who are going on killing more than the total amount of destructions carried out by the so called “JIHADISTS”.
Do you know how many people were destroyed by TWO ATOMIC BOMB attack in history of mankind? They are Christians. Do you know how many people killed by the two wars instigated by the Germans and participated by the entire western world? They were all Christians.
Do you know how many people were maimed by your so called Hindu/Christian JIHADIST Prabhakaran??? Count them.
Do you know how many died because of the crazy BUSH’s wars in Iraq & Afghanistan?
You are not “strong young lad”. You’re weak moron. So, when others are killed by the so called muslim terrorists, it’s terrorism – RIGHT?
Read the western media run by corporations with hidden agenda. You can go to heaven.
Sorry, for my outpour of anger in my previous posting. I went out venge my anger on your branding me as a JIHADIST. You know what a jihadist means. It is one who strives to overcome difficulty and succeed. It is telling us to strive against evil within ourselves first and foremost. It is not the one these militant groups have undertaken to bomb innocents people.
Again, who pushed them to such an extent? Isn’t it the political forces? The mainstream political forces have all the infrastructure to defend themselves. From military to media they know how to unleash violence and be defended shrouded in the media & publicity showing the world that they were right and the opposed ones are the enemies.
Western media is one of the most dangerous entity in the world where they defend the oppressing western govts. and show the public others as the enemy. What happened now is that the same media “Like the pied piper” fooled the entire world into believing the Bush’s lies and went to war. Now, does anybody speak about the international state terrorism???
War, an illegal war, is a terrorism to the victims who have lost their dear ones and properties.
Let me come back to my subject,
In Sri Lanka there is discrimination to a large extent. That’s why the Tamils took to arms struggle. But the Muslims didn’t. They somehow endured and living a normal life unlike the Tamil Hindu/Christian group. (Muslims are too called as Tamil speaking).
The schools, yes, there are many private schools but the poor masses cannot put their children into these schools. If the govt. is to serve the people as a whole in a country, there shouldn’t be any discrmination whatsoever. If you do, the result will be something like the terror unleashed by LTTE.
But, I must say something about Buddhist as well, they’re not as bad as the LTTE, who drove away all the Muslims from the Jaffna penninsula where the ethnic cleansing happened.
Dress code: If the Sikhs can wear their turbans, if the Christian nuns could wear their garb (gown), if the Buddhist monks could wear their yellow robe and go to schools, why the discrimination against Muslims? Dalai Lama will not wear Blazers. Sankarachariar will not wear NIKE sportswear, the naked sadhus will not wear anything and nobody bothers.
The Israeli terrorists stole an entire country killing millions and still they’re killing with western backing, any remorse???? None.
BJP/RSS has a killing project and their only prayer is to kill the Muslims and Christians and build some temples to their gods. Logical and humane isn’t it?
Come out of your box and be respectful to others and stop labelling like the western guys are doing to promote their bloodsucking projects (Wars & Corporations).
If entire Muslim world is backing the terror outfits, nobody will survive in the world including the Muslims. So, these terror guys are everywhere, in all societies, in all religions, in all cultures.
Do a worldwide unbiased research you will find that terror tactics were used by many, many leaders belonging to many race and religions.
Didnâ€™t a certain Global-Jihadâ€™s apologist (Shuaib68) have issues with the APARTHEID GOVERNMENT IN BUDDHIST SRI LANKA? Iâ€™d like to know if this Apartheid Government did ever OFFICIALLY sanction the destruction of â€œillegally-squattingâ€ mosques in his country and then bury the Koran on site.
It is very apparent that you must have gone thru some problem with the muslims and now the state of your mentality is under depression. So, you find any small item on a muslim issue and do the lovely muslim bashing. We have been thru this for centuries ever since the Islam was founded.
Yes, in Sri lanka there were many pogroms against the Hindus, mulsims & even the Crhistians on many many occoassions. In all those events, everything you’ve said about happened. They burnt down mosques (Not the squatters you’re talking about) burnt the Qurans, They destroyed Hindu temples killed the Priests and their beautiful innocent daughters were raped serially in front of all the onlookers, the church statues were smashed on the floor, nuns were threatened….etc.
What do you think? it’s human developmental projects??? You’re gone crazy man. Don;t keep on venging on muslims for lest it would drive to commit all those beautiful actions against a fellow human being. This will lead nowhere but the curse.
The natural outcome for those who venge against somebody on prejudice is to be satisfied with sadistic thinking and committing horrendous crimes.
I don;t defend the groups who does the killing. You know, before any killing the instigation preludes it. First the prejudice, then the talking, and finally the killing.
My advice to you is go on and kill a few muslims, it is then your blood thirst will quench. We cannot help you more than that.
“You silly dumb StrYngLad74,
Did I ever condone the killings under any slogan?”
My silly dumb apologist, you explicitly never mentioned a word of condemnation. As can be seen by all, your posts were indicative of TYPICAL APOLOGIST’S REMARKS that reek of finding financial and economic reasons for these kinds of violent acts. Read your own friggin’ posts again.
“You can bark till the cows come home but you are part of the gang who labels anybody who is against the capitalist thugs who are going on killing more than the total amount of destructions carried out by the so called â€œJIHADISTSâ€.”
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a closet ZIONIST/ILLUMINATI/CAPITALIST conspiracy theorist. Har har har!! Yeah, keep ringing that bell, boyo! I had a feeling you were a typical conspiracy theorist, but you opened your “mouth” and ameliorated any shred of doubt.
Do you think I or scores like me supported the war on Iraq? No, we didn’t. We knew exactly what it was for and it was against a RARE SECULAR MUSLIM LEADER (well, tyrant), who never attacked the USA. Yes, he and his sons did a lot of bad things to his UMMAH (where the f**k were you then?), but that never warranted an invasion…not even in 1991. SAY WHAT NOW? So much for your CAPITALIST THUG nonsense, the people of this CAPITALIST world voted his hordes out of power TWICE!
On a side note, maybe you, Alex Jones (the Illuminati conspiracy nut), and the 9/11 truthers should snuggle and exchange sweet-nothings.
“Do you know how many people were destroyed by TWO ATOMIC BOMB attack in history of mankind? They are Christians. Do you know how many people killed by the two wars instigated by the Germans and participated by the entire western world? They were all Christians.”
There is a difference between using TWO ATOMIC BOMBS in an ACT OF WAR vs an ACT OF TERRORISM, dumb-s**t. While I definitely still do not agree with nuking innocent civilians, the act itself brought WWII to an end which could have raged on in the Pacific. Do you even know your friggin’ history? Read some stuff instead of watching Alex Jones’ crap on youtube.
As for calling the Germans Christians, ask any Christian and they’ll say that Hitler was anything but, despite his “God Mitt Uns” belt-buckles. They claim he was a staunch secular atheist. Plus, let’s also not forget that one Grand Mufti of JERUSALEM, Haj Amin el-Husseini, was in cahoots with Hitler and praising his pogroms against Jews. Remember, this was BEFORE Israel was ever formed.
“Do you know how many people were maimed by your so called Hindu/Christian JIHADIST Prabhakaran??? Count them.”
Wow. Guess someone doesn’t know his own backyard. Is LTTE a Hindu outfit? Then WTF is Anton Balasingham, a Christian, doing among its high ranks? LTTE is a ETHNIC TAMIL outfit, as is known in the rest of world. Again, get your friggin’ facts straight. Here’s a good website indicating role of Christians in LTTE
FTR, I never supported and nor do I support LTTE tactics. I, like SI, am very happy they are close to being BLOWN OUT OF THE WATER.
“You are not â€œstrong young ladâ€. Youâ€™re weak moron. So, when others are killed by the so called muslim terrorists, itâ€™s terrorism – RIGHT?”
You’re a friggin’ idiot, which goes to show you wrote your response in a typical knee-jerk reaction. Considering the overt use of name-calling (that propagated me to respond in the same manner) goes to show your absolute lack of who or what I am.
The name is STRAPPING YOUNG LAD! It’s a reference to a metal band. If you don’t know shite, don’t expel it from your brown-eye. My questions to you were straight from sources that I gathered and were based on your on your stance. Funny how you ramble till the “cows come home” and yet, you don’t even offer a single rebuttal to the questions I posed, which I carefully scripted using sources and laced with scathing rebuttals to your CATERWAULING. You yelped about how an APARTHEID BUDDHIST STATE was taking the will of your people to live, and yet, massive pogroms in Iran, Pakistan, and Bangladesh have done EXACTLY that. Got any response for that?
“Do you know how many died because of the crazy BUSHâ€™s wars in Iraq & Afghanistan?”
You know, no one who was against G.W.Bush gave ANY such apologists’ excuses like you gave. Everyone knew he was a dumbass being controlled by a vile and corrupt support-staff, and yet HIS BEING A DUMBASS didn’t move his detractors ONE BIT. The people who loved him, loved him PRECISELY for his DUMBASS-TEXAN attribute. The saner ones knew better.
Plus, wasn’t the Indian government against the Iraq war? Why have the Jihadists targeted India then? Oh, it’s the financial woes, eh? Pray then why were doctors and engineers in the September bombings?
“Read the western media run by corporations with hidden agenda. You can go to heaven.”
Here we go again. HIDDEN AGENDA and MORE CONSPIRACY THEORIES. What may I ask is HIDDEN when the actions of Jihadists is to maim and then seek publicity for maximum effect? Has an Al-Qaeda act happened without one? Let me guess, 9/11 was an inside job, was it not? I guess 7/11, 7/7, and 11/26 were ALSO inside jobs? Keep jerking off to your fantasies.
P.S. Alex Jones called. He’s running out of APOLOGISTS’ like you.
This is where we argue using facts and logical rebuttals, instead of putting the muzzle on the caterwauling numskulls like Shuaib68
You do make a good point, SI, however I never really bought the concept of a SECULAR nation, that is India. Are we really secular? No we are not.
a. A SECULAR NATION STRONGLY SEPARATES CHURCH FROM STATE: It baffles me to this day how the GREAT Mustafa Kemal ‘Ataturk’ manage to create a secular Islamic nation and instill Ethnic Turkish nationalism, instead of Islamism. It’s brilliant and it shows in the scores of Turkish people who I’ve met who are modern, tolerant, and beautiful people. We as Indians, unfortunately FAILED miserably in doing so when we allowed the Muslim League to carve their own territories post-independence and for the sake of vote banks, allowed Muslims to practice their own brand of civil law, which basically exonerates them from paying alimony, adhering to marriage laws, and going through regular divorce courts. Should we have worked towards assimilating Muslims and coercing them to a ONE NATION, ONE LAW? ABSOLUTELY, but our greedy politicians wouldn’t have it. However, the question remains, would they have assimilated to one law? I SERIOUSLY doubt it, considering the scores of reports I have read from the UK, one which is about Muslim parents protesting against schools that teach their kids swimming.
On the flip-side, petty Indira-Congress politics took a perfectly assimilated Sikh community and smacked them right-across their faces by creating Bhindranwale and then shoddily raiding the Akal Takht in Amritsar to eliminate him, thus incurring their wrath and making them our nation’s enemies. I can’t help but mull at the irony of the situation.
b. A SECULAR NATION’S GOVERNMENT DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE: Now, I will exonerate INDIVIDUAL DISCRIMINATION from this argument, because that truly cannot be controlled extensively by the state. We see that in USA and Europe even today, despite Government policies. In this context, I am going to focus on the Dalits who, IMO, could have used a big-boost in self-worth had Gandhi, when he had the power to do so, worked to abolish the caste-based stratification of Hinduism and saved it. I am not sure how much truth there is to this incident, but apparently Veer Savarkar and Gandhi had a one-on-one talk about abolishing the caste system, with the former being the biggest proponent of the abolition. Gandhi, the racist that he was (yes SI, despite your love for him, the man was a bleeding racist), disagreed to Savarkar’s proposal. What a monumental moment that could have been to the faith and to the status of these people! Yet, Gandhi was quite content to call them HARIJANS and leave it at that and the Government placated Gandhi’s legacy and the Dalits by needlessly offering them quotas and angering the rest of the masses further. Needless to say, when the Dalits are being deprived of basic education or slaughtered in numbers, there is really no one to avail the quotas now, is there?
P.S. Let’s also not forget the absolutely skewed Dowry Laws (don’t get me wrong- I’m STAUNCHLY AGAINST DOWRY) and Anti-homosexuality laws in India, that have men and gays running for cover. I didn’t feel the need to explain this since the sources are available for your perusal.
c. A SECULAR NATION ALLOWS FREEDOM OF SPEECH: I feel really happy being in the USA, where I can read books like “Christ Conspiracy”, “Satanic Verses”, or Ibn Warraq’s “Why I am not a Muslim” and discuss, without fear of violence, the veracity of the existence and sanctity of Rama and his bridge, Christ, and Muhammad. Have we allowed for such things in India? NOPE!!!
My point of contention is the M.F. Hussain case. It should be noted that M.F. Hussain’s nude paintings of Hindu Goddesses existed long before the backlash began against him and his works. This only happened after goons in ShivSena took advantage of the majority Hindu population’s displeasure over the Government’s acquiescence towards the Muslim populace by banning works like Rushdie’s “Satanic Verses” or Taslima Nasreen’s “Lajja”, and not putting the hammer down on M.F. Hussain way back when he created those works. Through this back-and-forth act of placation, we have pandered to stifling free speech for fear of reprisals, and placated all religious figure-heads in doing so.
In retrospect, we have essentially failed to obey the basic tenets of what constitutes a secular society. Our politicians may flag the SECULAR INDIA banner as much as they want, but the truth is far from it, and I’m positive a lot like me share the same opinion. IMO, India might have been better off declaring itself as a Hindu nation.
1. Mustafa Kemal was an extraordinary leader and we share your admiration for the man. We’ve been great admirers of Mustafa Kemal and Lee Kuan Yew for years.
BTW, the Turks seem to have a great affinity for Bollywood. In a Cologne cab, we once encountered an old Turkish driver asking us in his heavily accented English if we knew Raza Kapu. When we said no, he was perplexed and started singing awaramu awaramu, we quickly realized he was referring to the legendary director Raj Kapoor and the awaara song. A few weeks back, our U.S.-based aunt was in Turkey and had nice things to say about the country. One of these days SearchIndia.com will do a post from there.
2. On the civil law issue, Rajiv Gandhi’s craven surrender on the Shah Bano alimony issue may have been the beginning of his fall from grace. As for your question on whether Muslims would would have assimilated/accepted to one law, a law is universally applicable once passed. In this instance, passing the law is the real battle not the enforcement.
3. You write: Veer Savarkar and Gandhi had a one-on-one talk about abolishing the caste system, with the former being the biggest proponent of the abolition. Gandhi, the racist that he was (yes SI, despite your love for him, the man was a bleeding racist), disagreed to Savarkar’s proposal. What a monumental moment that could have been to the faith and to the status of these people!
On the Gandhi-Veer Savarkar discussions on abolition of caste system, we disagree with the basic premise of your argument.
Irrespective of whether the discussion took place or not, the caste system is a bigger institution in Indian society (and more so in the 1930s or 40s when the discussion would have taken place, if it really did), way, way bigger than Gandhi or Savarkar or anyone/anything else. You don’t abolish such an entrenched social system just by one man’s decree even if it’s Gandhi’s fiat. It takes decades for the influence of a well entrenched and institutionalized social structure like the caste system to decline.
In the U.S., it took a civil war and several decades after that for slavery to be eliminated. And slavery was about 250 years old compared to the Indian caste system, which has been around for thousands of years.
Gandhi was a smarter politician than people give him credit for. He knew which battles to fight for.
4. On the dowry issue, India seems to have gone to the other extreme after decades of subjecting women to untold persecution for not bringing in enough gold coins. We take a certain schadenfreude in the current plight of men but it’s still nothing compared to the suffering inflicted on women for decades including burning them alive. On a serious note, we think this will correct itself and a middle ground will be found.
5. You write: IMO, India might have been better off declaring itself as a Hindu nation
We disagree for various reasons including our 99% atheistic outlook (the remaining 1% is skepticism).
An ill-functioning secular nation is orders of magnitude better than a perfect religious nation. In a country like India where we have over 150 million people belonging to non-Hindu faiths, making India a Hindu nation now or even in 1947 would have been traumatic beyond words for the minorities.
In any case, making India a Hindu nation is a slippery slope. Even if we guarantee Muslims/Christians/Sikhs equal basic rights, disgusting bias and discrimination are soon bound to creep in.
We all need to understand that while Utopia is a worthy ideal to strive for, it’s an unreachable destination.
Holy Crap.. you guys have a lot on your mind.. All I have in my low-IQ brain is “Sports and Entertainment”.. It is making me uneasy to see my two favorite (and who were seemingly very calm) commenters dueling it out. If two highly intelligent people (who are not in Mumbai) get so agitated, I am wondering how tense the situation will be in Mumbai..
Why is it always blaming the entire muslim community for the wrongs of the few? This happens only when some criminals in the muslims do such thing.
WE CONDEMN & HATE KILLING OF INNCOCENTS AND DEPLORE ANY SORT OF KILLING OF HUMAN BEINGS FOR ANY REASON.
STRAPPING YOUNG LAD, I don’t want to push your BP even more higher. Cool down man! You’re tired, so tired.
Please forgive me if I had spoken anything to hurt your feelings. I’m sorry man.
Let’s be friends and forget all the nonsense these bastards are doing to humanity. To tell you the real fact I was watching the TV for more than 5-6 hours of the Mumbai incident cursing these F—–s for killing people and destroying that beautiful building “TAJ” hotel.
I’m so sorry man. I’m a nut sometimes.
In one of the comments shuaib68 describes how Sinhalese discriminate against Muslims in Sri Lanka ….
The same guy is also pro-Sinhala in the war against LTTE ….
Very confusing to say the least …
Why is it that a Muslim who is also speaks Tamil ..finding it difficult to get along with LTTE (Tamilians – Hindu & Christian) even though there is a obvious lingusitic affinity here
Finding it difficult to get along with the Sinhalese also …even though both are Sri Lankans and share a common enemy – The LTTE
Now who is the enemy here – Sinhala OR Tamil ???
Something to do with Religion ? .. Unwillingness to assimilate ? …yet blaming everybody else
It’s precisely due to such discrimination against minorities (tamils) that we have the current situation in SL …yet Tamilians, LTTE are being called divisive forces ?? ….Unlike Pakistan ..there is no Tamil Eelam …so comparisons with India in this context are faulty ..
Let me draw a parallel to the current situation in India ……
You wanted and got Pakistan ..because you believed that your way of life is different and it’s not possible to lead that life in a country which is predominantly Hindu … Many stayed here saying we love India / Hindus .. Hindu / Muslim Bhai Bhai, Composite culture .. common culture …etc etc …
Still you continue to create problems …if somebody is poor in India ..then it’s Hindus …in terms of sheer numbers …they are much more and deeply impacted by all those economic issues which …Muslims talk about … How many do we hear going around laying bombs ..killing people …destroying property …..
“EVEN A FOOL WILL NOT BURN HIS OWN HOUSE”. – But a tratior will
Loyalties of these Indian Muslims are divided …the only reason being Religion …this is true even in case of many economically well off people … Till such time ..these things continue …they will be looked upon with Suspicion ..and they and they are alone to be blamed for it …..
If you dont get a job ..it’s because you are a Muslim …if you get one and during that you are slapped ..that’s because ..you are a Muslim …if you are economically well off (doctor , Software) and still you continue to indulge in Terrorist activites ..that’s because you are a Muslim AND you are being Discriminated by the Hindus …..
So what the HECK is the Definition of so called Non-Discrimination against Muslims ???
Also can they practice the same in all those countries, wherein they are in Majority?
SI: Please check on this article and it gives some important informations on the present financial crisis and some info from the recent history of the world of finance, how it funded wars and benefitted.
Good review of an interesting author’s recent work on finance.
Yes, it’s a bit confusing when you read what I’m trying to say in all those comments.
Simply put, all I’m saying is that most people forget the big hand the politicians in govts. playing to their whims and fancies in creating the situation for armed struggles.
I am supportive of all the Tamils who advocate violence free struggles to gain their freedoms. The LTTE unleashed violence on people of Sri Lanka on the pretext of the violence that were done on the Tamils by the many Sri Lankan govts. The Sinhala politicians (some of them) are openly saying that the country belongs only to them. So, this is….I don’t know how to put it words. Would you agree if you belong to a minority group in a society?
The other point is, although the govt. of SL (Previous Govts) did created the monster of race based nationalism, we as citizens have to respect the law and order of the country to move on beyond all these nonsense. So, I can’t fix my mind whether to be the pro-government or pro-LTTE. Isn’t it better to point out the mistakes of these two parties who are dragging the future of our children into an abyss?
Now, the other thing is, being a Muslim I’m not responsible to some other Muslim’s action. They can call themselves alligiing their ideologies to Islam & Muslim. But, for God sake, I’m not resposible. So, why on earth the people belonging to other faiths and beliefs hold the entire Muslim population of the earth responsible for these inhuman acts.
We are people like you. We want to live a peaceful life like everybody else. We want our children educated and progress in life. So, what’s the difference between you and me?
If the Kashmiri Muslims are having some fault with the indian govt. I’m (a Muslim) not responsible for their politics.
Do we blame the entire Christian white community in the world for Bush’s acts. It’s not logical and it’s completely wrong. So, why only us?
Let me give you one more important information about being Muslim and still belong to the “other category” within the Muslim fraternity. The Arabs in total never give their girls in marriage to non-arab Muslim. Have you ever seen a marriage taking place between a UAE Arab girl with a Bangladeshi muslim???? you won’t find it, unless it is a love affair and taken place in a different area of the world away of Middle East.
The Arabs like to marry and do their F’s with other women but when it comes to marriage and social acceptance there’s only a racist policy they follow. We know how we are being treated in the Middle east countries when in comes to conflict resolution of some disputes. They take their side. We are are nobody to them. The Islam fraternity is only the icing. When it comes real accomodation of other Muslims belonging to other races, it’s very rare.
That way, I must in a way be thankful to the people of Sri Lanka even with minor differences we recognise ourselves as SRI LANKANS. We are a family and we will scold and argue with each other to iron out our differences. But, we will not find our home anywhere but SRI LANKA. So, this Mulsim thing and Islam thing all secondary to me, to us when you consider yourself of belongingness to a land.
I don’t give a damn whether the Pakistanis or Afghans are killing each other or holding on to their throats. I don’t belong there.
If I don’t have money, the Saudi authorities will not let me do the performance of HAJ. These regimes are under the protection of US/Europe alliance. They will not listen to us althoug we profess the same religion.
It’s a different ball altogether.
The reason I object to the US/Europe capitalism is that they’re exploiting the whole world. Killing and robbing the entire world to protect their citizens and interests. So, in this game, there are all sorts of countries, races & religions (Including Islam) in alliance. See, the Saudi Islamic authority will never condemn the US of its atrocities. It’s a political gamble.
I don’t know whether I spoke clearly on these issues. I have tried my best to put my mind into this, to clear the doubts and the differences about being a Muslim.
You write: But, for God sake, I’m not resposible. So, why on earth the people belonging to other faiths and beliefs hold the entire Muslim population of the earth responsible for these inhuman acts.
The other reason we the entire Muslims in Sri Lanka against the LTTE is the idea of division of Sri Lanka. We totally disagree and will never allow anybody to divide our motherland. In that sense we have to be with govt.
But the time will change and the govt. will realise (maybe they have realised by now) their mistakes and change the course of the governing of the country.
This is why my favourite and most respected leaders are Lee Kwan yu and Nelson Mandela. I don’t list any Muslim in this category. Even when I look for articles in AlJazeera.com I read articles contributed by URI AVNERY first. Because, he belongs to the peace group. He speaks the truth and never fears of saying the facts even the Israeli side of their mistakes and faults.
In other social websites, the favourites quotes of mine are mostly taken from his articles. I love that man’s humanity. There are good people in Israel as well. I want to tell the whole muslim world that I prefer the quotes of an Israeli than a Muslim, to point out the fact that there are good people everywhere.
This article is about the Mumbai Massacre written by Gilad Atzmon (an Israeli). I think there’s some truth in his clarification of the dreadful event that took place in India few days ago.
The article in the above link is less about the Mumbai massacre and more of a rant against the U.S.
After all the disucssions I could feel one thing strongly…
the Indian Muslims feel they are discriminated
the Indian christians feel they are discriminated
and the Hindus as well feel that they are discriminated…
this is stange… isnt it?
In India, only the poor don’t feel discriminated against.
Bovine like, they just accept their fate.
I read an article on the plan of Rajabakshe on Sri Lankan Muslims… Looks like after eliminating LTTE, he would probably turn to Muslims, the political viewers see his move on making karuna a lead for the state of muslim majority, who is ex-LTTE and highly anti Muslim, as a significant anti Muslim move of Rajabakshe.
I think the Sri Lankan political system / government / army all are now well occupied and controlled by Rajabakshe and his family will lead to a dictatorship very soon..
Hinduism is a different kindo of religions from Islam and Christianity .. because no one can become Hindu unless he is born as hindu. Saying this, at the same time Hinduism isnt a racial religion like Jewish because there is a big variety of races among Hindus… The nature of Hinduism is very different from any other religion in the world, for e.g. almost all the religions of the world has a defined policy on the belief, a structure of administration, huge pool of office bearers to carry out fund management and propaganda. None of this is available in Hinduism, even the basic thing, the definition of God or belief of God isn’t made clear. So bringing together all (Hindu) people on the basis of religion is very very difficult. If that was easy BJP would be ruling indefinitely as 85% of the country would support them as they are anti-anything-other-than-Hinduism…
Whenever an election happens, I will hear a announcement in church on which party all the Christians should be voting, this reaches almost 100% of them… can we imagine doing something like this Hindu temples? Even if you do, how many people do you think it would reach?
Many of you are taking about the majority 85%, but the point I am making here is, the fact is India is not a Hindu nation and NEVER it can become one (atleast for the above resonings)…
Hinduism is a more tolerant faith, for the most part.
You said: “We disagree for various reasons including our 99% atheistic outlook (the remaining 1% is skepticism).
An ill-functioning secular nation is orders of magnitude better than a perfect religious nation. In a country like India where we have over 150 million people belonging to non-Hindu faiths, making India a Hindu nation now or even in 1947 would have been traumatic beyond words for the minorities.
In any case, making India a Hindu nation is a slippery slope. Even if we guarantee Muslims/Christians/Sikhs equal basic rights, disgusting bias and discrimination are soon bound to creep in.
We all need to understand that while Utopia is a worthy ideal to strive for, itâ€™s an unreachable destination.”
I am not a religious feller either. It’s just the way we conduct things as a secular nation that vilifies the very nature of being one. Our leaders have given preferential rights to religious minorities and then slyly urged the majority to express its anger on them. Why didn’t someone have the backbone back in 1947 to say “ONE LAND, ONE LAW FOR ALL”? Oh yeah, that Nehru is a spineless twit who’s bred a series of unfortunate offsprings.
That said, it is in the context OF THE STATEMENT ABOVE that I wished that India had declared itself as a Hindu nation and just removed all shred of doubt.
Joe says: Looks like after eliminating LTTE, he would probably turn to Muslims,…”
Yes Joe, this is the fear that everybody is having. The way things are going we have very bleak future. I mean the minorities. Our only hope and the only saviour is INDIA. We wish India to remain a powerful nation that will give all the nations surrounding it the leadership. This is only our wish. But, India is having lot of trouble in the recent past and it would be difficult for them to give a solid leadership due the present crisis prevaling over there.
It is because of India that we, the minorities in Sri Lanka having some sort of a faith that no genocide will befall on us (like we saw in RWANDA).
The main concern that hightened the tension among the minorities are the many high ranking officials made very controversial remarks on minorities being alien to their acceptence. They’re still treating the minorities as some visitors living in the country on an extended stay. Please read the following articles to get a clear view on this:
TO WHOM DOES THE COUNTRY BELONG â€“ JEHAN PERERA
The army general made a very controversial remarks at a time when a war is going on and there are a lot of opposition internationally to stop the carnage and return to peace talks. When they (Govt.) see an end in sight for the LTTE, they have already declared the win and have started to hint warnings to minorities in a vailed threat. This is not well taken by the Tamils & Muslims in particular.
The other thing about the LTTE is that, whether we agree or not, thay have shown the govt. that practices Institutionlised Racism for decades, that they can be a formidable force to disrupt their activities being a small group and belonging to a minority section of the society.
The govt. and it’s goons (the ultra nationalist forces including the Buddhist hierarchy) for decades ill treated with death and destruction. Then, as a result of their actions there came a lethal response in the form of LTTE. Isn’t this very ironic that the human psychology is studied for centuries and still our leaders could not correct their mindset from racism,nepotism,and all those ‘isms’ that will harm the social fabric and create havoc for all.
This is why I always blame the rulers. The bloody rulers those who are sick minded in forgetting the human nature that goes after vengence when one is made victim against his wish.
Hinduism is a very peaceful religion as far as I know, in Sri Lanka until the govt. made buddhism the state religion. The monks, chief preists in the Buddhist sects began to show and excercise their superiority over other religions. Hinduism is still peaceful, but the tamils will tolerate only to a certain degree of discrimination.
You know Phulan Devi? It’s like that.
As the Perera article piece rightly says, A viable political solution can only based on the position that Sri Lanka belongs equally to all its citizens, be they from the ethnic majority or minorities, and finding ways to accommodate all of their reasonable aspirations.
This will give you some info about the mindset of the SL Govt. and it’s army:
I just read an article by Arundhati Roy on the Mumbai attack and a whole lot info on the mess that India and Pakistan have created them selves in their political, religous & Military history.
9 is not 11
By Arundhati Roy
â€œIf the Mumbai attackers were members of Lashkar-e-Taiba, why didn’t it matter to them that their victims were Muslim?
â€¢ November isn’t September
We’ve forfeited the rights to our own tragedies. As the carnage in Mumbai raged on, day after horrible day, our 24-hour news channels informed us that we were watching “India’s 9/11.” And like actors in a Bollywood rip-off of an old Hollywood film, we’re expected to play our parts and say our lines, even though we know it’s all been said and done before. â€œ
My conviction is that the politicians, the crack minded are the original murderers with their never ending urge to find ways of creating murder & havoc to win power.
The humanity is indebted to the great politicians of the likes of Lee Kwan Yew & Nelson Mandela who showed better way in dealing with inequality and rights for all citizens (in a country).
Context matters, as Roy argues.
We hope other readers make the time to read this lengthy piece.
Holy crap.. that article is probably longer than “The God of Small Things”.. I salute you guys for reading it fully. Where can I find the cliff’s notes for it.
Worth the time.
You may read the article in the following link how PRABHAKARAN got the inspiration to his killing project.
You will be amazed to see how some people, the terror linked guys, hijack religious teachings (like the ones used by the so called “JIHADISTS”) to impliment their ideas forcefully according to their beliefs and philosohpy.
They won’t be able to catch him – Prabha’s sister
“Like his mother, Prabhakaran devoured history books, particularly stories about the Indian fighters who fought the British for independence. “It was the reading of such books that laid the foundation for my life as a revolutionary,” he once said.”
…”A poster of the Hindu hero Arjuna hangs on the wall. The Tamil script below tells a story from the Bhagavad Gita about a conversation between Lord Krishna and Arjuna, who is reluctant to go to war.
“Arjuna says, how can I fight my relatives?” Mr. Rajendran explains. “Then Krishna says, it is your duty. I am the God and I am telling you, you do it. Then he decides to fight.”
It was one of Prabhakaran’s favourite childhood stories.”