As promised in his campaign, U.S. President Obama has initiated steps to make it tough for U.S. companies that create jobs in Bangalore while screwing American employees in Buffalo (a dying city in upstate New York).
Yesterday, Obama set the ball rolling for reforming the U.S. tax code that currently rewards companies for shipping jobs offshore or transferring profits to overseas tax havens.
[M]ost Americans meet their responsibilities because they understand that it’s an obligation of citizenship, necessary to pay the costs of our common defense and our mutual well-being.
And yet, even as most American citizens and businesses meet these responsibilities, there are others who are shirking theirs. And many are aided and abetted by a broken tax system, written by well-connected lobbyists on behalf of well-heeled interests and individuals. It’s a tax code full of corporate loopholes that makes it perfectly legal for companies to avoid paying their fair share….it’s a tax code that says you should pay lower taxes if you create a job in Bangalore, India, than if you create one in Buffalo, New York.
….I’m announcing a set of proposals to crack down on illegal overseas tax evasion, close loopholes, and make it more profitable for companies to create jobs here in the United States.
For years, we’ve talked about ending tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas and giving tax breaks to companies that create jobs here in America. That’s what our budget will finally do. We will stop letting American companies that create jobs overseas take deductions on their expenses when they do not pay any American taxes on their profits. And we will use the savings to give tax cuts to companies that are investing in research and development here at home so that we can jump start job creation, foster innovation, and enhance America’s competitiveness.
– President Barack Obama at the White House, May 4, 2009
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What would be your estimate of the level of beat that Indian companies would take, because of this?
Will the tax exceed the profit margin of the companies which is attained by outsourcing? If american IT companies starts outsourcing, lets say, the development work besides creating jobs in America, will they be taxed too?
Indian companies, atleast now, should come forward for enabling more research and development, products and less services [i mean, less coolie-services], and creating globally competitive brands and technologies – Instead of depending on the low-cost factor and concentrated outsourcing.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. Hard to say whether Obama will even succeed in the first place because there’s intense opposition from big business and their stooges in Congress – i.e. the Republicans.
But if Obama makes headway there will be impact on multiple fronts – lower H1B/L1 Visas, lower outsourcing, higher taxes on U.S. corporations, higher tax revenues for the U.S. and hopefully greater equity in our (American) society.
2. You write: Indian companies, atleast now, should come forward for enabling more research and development, products and less services [i mean, less coolie-services], and creating globally competitive brands and technologies
It’s going to take forever. Sometimes, we think it’ll never happen.
Maybe, the Indian brain structure is not suited for innovative or inventive work.
Look, in 62 years the only strong global brand India has built is Coolie. 😉
Ha, I don’t buy that.. May be, most brains are tied and bound to think within a finite space..
Probably the inferior mentality and the mindset ‘we can’t win the white’ – both caused by the English rule and the education system, are the reasons.
A passage delivered by Macaulay in English Parliament :”It is impossible for us, with our limited means, to attempt to educate the body of the people. We must at present do our best to form a class who may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we govern; a class of persons, Indian in blood and colour, but English in taste, in opinions, in morals, and in intellect. To that class we may leave it to refine the vernacular dialects of the country, to enrich those dialects with terms of science borrowed from the Western nomenclature, and to render them by degrees fit vehicles for conveying knowledge to the great mass of the population”.
[Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Macauley%5D
We borrowed then, and still continue to do.
[Another Interesting Info: The term ‘Macaulay’s Children’ is used to refer to people born of Indian ancestry who adopt Western culture as a lifestyle, or display attitudes influenced by colonisers.]
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. The Macaulay passage you cite above is good. We were aware of that.
2. Macaulay’s essays are very good. Very trenchant prose.
We recommend particularly the essays on Burleigh, Robert Clive, Warren Hastings and Pitt.
The essays are lengthy but worth the time. Churchill used to read them when he was posted in Bangalore (at least we think so based on what we read long ago or maybe we are imagining it. No matter what, the essays are a delightful read).
‘Maybe, the Indian brain structure is not suited for innovative or inventive work.’
were you including yourself in that statement? If not, its vain to think that there can be no other Indian like you….
SearchIndia.com Responds:
Our brain structure changed with our passport. 😉
Seriously, let’s take a look at different facets of India – whether it’s Bollywood, Kollywood, IT industry, auto industry, real estate et al, the defining element is imitation, outright theft or low-wage coolie labor.
Couple of months back, they added a word called “Bangalore’ed”. Now i think back home, they need to add a new word – “Obama’ed”
SearchIndia.com Responds:
Sure.
Next time, an Indian IT guy in Chennai, Hyderabad, Bangalore or Noida loses his job, he can tell people his job was Obama’ed.
this is a good move …In future american companies will get less business opp …in growing economies like India and china ….this means ….these opportunities will go to Indian Companies ….and they will grow ….
From being employed ….we will shift to being a employer ….I welcome more such initiatives from Obama
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. You write above: From being employed ….we will shift to being a employer
Oh, really. The last time we checked, employers were not growing on trees in India.
Source: Obama’s Plan on Corporate Taxes Unnerves the Indian Outsourcing Industry, New York Times, May 5, 2009.
2. You write: this is a good move …In future american companies will get less business opp …in growing economies like India
Oh, really. Let’s look at the balance of trade between India and U.S. The numbers are self-explanatory. Cui bono?
Source for trade data: U.S. Census Bureau.
Perhaps, You forgot to reply this question of mine above. ‘Will the tax exceed the profit margin of the companies which is attained by outsourcing?’
I still believe, that profit gained by the less labour cost will be far away from the tax percentage that Obama is planning to levy.
The link of NYT given by you also cites International experts to have said ‘companies do not move jobs to India because the tax rate is lower; they do it because labor costs less’.
Contradicting the coolie-claims, the article also says that – Raymond J. Wiacek, chairman of the global tax practice at Jones Day, said, “I don’t think it’s going to make a bean’s difference to India.â€
He added, “India is a highly skilled but inexpensive labor market,â€
Hmmm.. Good to read..
SearchIndia.com Responds:
You write: Will the tax exceed the profit margin of the companies which is attained by outsourcing?
Obama’s goal is to boost taxes by putting a brake on the manipulative practices of the corporations. Will he succeed? Only time will tell.
The profit margin of the companies is irrelevant because it does not accrue to the general American people, but only to a small section that manipulates profits through tax havens and screws American workers by resorting to outsourcing.
Will the jobs return to the U.S. – we are skeptical but hope remains eternal that the process of outsourcing will get tougher.
IT companies will shift focus …on other countries and the domestic market ….There will be some counter move ….wherein American companies will lose out on Indian markets ….that’s good for us in the long run …
See today …chinese companies are growing at such a pace that they are bigger than American Companies ….
Data cited by you is based on current scenario ….I have clearly stated that we will move towards a scenario wherein we will not be dependant on American’s
you cannot except others to keep quiet …while you take such measures ….in the long run this is good for us ….
Many Americans are employed because American Companies are not American ….but GLOBAL COMPANIES …..that will change slowly ….
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. You write: IT companies will shift focus …on other countries and the domestic market ….
Keep dreaming.
What other market do you have? Albania, Sri Lanka, Russia, Bangladesh….?
2. You write: chinese companies are growing at such a pace that they are bigger than American Companies
Without the American market, the Chinese have no hope.
Lovely dude, can you ever cure a disease by just treating its symptoms rather than eradicating its cause???????
Let’s face reality dude, no matter how much we say, you people (AMERICANS) keep blaming your woes on us INDIANS saying we usurped your jobs and killed your economy. When will you people ever understand???
First let me clear two things:
1) AMERICAN ECONOMY IS NOT DEPENDANT ONLY ON THE IT INDUSTRY, therefore blaming India just because we captured your IT jobs makes little sense. Afterll, I don’t see Indians running Walmart, HP, IBM,Microsoft, Pizza Corner, KFC, MCdonalds and other organizations in USA.
2) Did we tell you to spend lavishly using your CRedit cards, were we the ones who told you not to SAVE, but SHAVE OFF YOUR ECONOMY by buying and spending endlessly on unnecessary luxuries????
It’s like the Man who landed in a pit because he gazed at the stars and then blamed the stars for his fall.
If you are gonna say NO to any of these points, I would recommend you undergo a complete study on ECONOMICS of the USA. TRUTH is bitter my friend. You people dug your own grave and prepared your own coffins, we just accidentally hit the last nail in the coffin.
Stop blaming India for everything that happens to USA. You may call us POOR, SHIT, and by all unexcusable names, but remember, we are a better quality of SHIT than you are. We are less foolish and tend to except the harsh realities of life better than the US.
Once we get rid of the scumdogs, the so-called Saints, Fakirs, and of course the EVANGELISTs, and the bastardly politicians out of our country, we will be on the road to prosperity, untill then we shall try to withstand your abuses on us.
The US economy would only prosper when it understands the problem at its grassroots: Spending capacity. The US government must encourage and even create measures to bring awareness of Usefull spending and SAVING!!!!
Then, OBAMA must encourage and reward companies that find innovative and productive ways to beat recession. COmpanies can try to diversify their products and create new niche markets. Although this is a slow painful route, it will help the economy very much on the long run.
Of course, OBAMA must restrict the number of outsourcing jobs, but condemning Indians to the very hilt is obnoxious. Indians settled in US form some of the THINK-TANKS in the US administration. Therefore, they cannot just be ignored. Obama should actually welcome Indian companies to set shop in US, provide them tax benefits on ONE CONDITION, Recruit 70% of US citizens and the rest from India. This would help companies pump money into the US economy and also creating jobs.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. Sure, profligate spending by Americans is partly to blame.
2. You write: we will be on the road to prosperity, untill then we shall try to withstand your abuses on us
It might be nice if you start off with building a few thousand toilets in Mumbai to spare us the sight of your bums before you dream of unachievable utopias like driving on the road to prosperity. The exit from the Road to Serfdom is a long way off.
The day you hitched your economic wagon to our engine, you abandoned your independence. You cojones are now in our hands and when the going gets tough for us (like the current recession here), we’ll squeeze ’em till you squeal and make concessions.
As an aside, you selfishly and foolishly did not care to go in for a hardware model like China that benefitted hundreds of millions unlike the software model that benefits a tiny segment. Pay the price now.
3. You write: AMERICAN ECONOMY IS NOT DEPENDANT ONLY ON THE IT INDUSTRY, therefore blaming India just because we captured your IT jobs makes little sense. Afterll, I don’t see Indians running Walmart, HP, IBM,Microsoft, Pizza Corner, KFC, MCdonalds and other organizations in USA.
IT is a high-paying job.
But it’s not just IT alone. It’s IT + pharmaceutical research + legal work + financial analysis+ patent/trademark filing + news reporting + copy editing + call centers + tech support + customer service + product design + aircraft servicing + + +
IT is the very visible part that we’ll address first.
BTW, Walmart, Pizza Hut, KFC, McDonald’s pay pittance, minimum wages here.
3. You write: COmpanies can try to diversify their products and create new niche markets.
When purchasing power is being eroded in the U.S., all these talk is meaningless.
As we’ve said often, should your well-paying IT jobs go to Bangladesh or Sri Lanka, we know how Indians would react – towns and cities would burn and mayhem would be the order of the day.
SI:’As we’ve said often, should your well-paying IT jobs go to Bangladesh or Sri Lanka, we know how Indians would react – towns and cities would burn and mayhem would be the order of the day.’
So what did the American middle class do when their jobs were outsourced? just sat in a corner quietly? Didn’t do them any good did it?
SearchIndia.com Responds:
You write above: So what did the American middle class do when their jobs were outsourced? just sat in a corner quietly?
When their jobs were outsourced to Indian IT companies, the American programmers were forced to train their Indian replacements on how to do the job.
Why did they do it? Because they were told that they would not receive severance payments if they did not train their Indian replacements, who came to the U.S. on H1 and L1 Visas.
You still don’t get my point, I was referring to the main reason for your country getting into the mess you’re in now! When did I ever justify Indian IT industry not messing up US????? Dude, before you reply to somebody’s comment, try to see their point of view.
I am not a great writer like ya, but I know to convey my POV in a simple manner. Let’s face it, Americans are now pissed off with Indians just because they lost jobs, now tell me If Indians didn’t take up the jobs, certainly somebody else would have. In this big bad selfish world, people are after opportunities buddy, you and I aren’t here to do public service, are we??
Yes, you say my Ideas are Utopian, but I can’t stop trying my bit to change India. Don’t ask me to built a dozen toilets in Mumbai, I ain’t no Politician. One man cannot change the system, buddy. But I can still do my level best to change my neighborhood and I will.
If everybody starts complaining and whining about their problems, who is gonna fix them????
You can abuse me with a hundred thousand choicest words, but that can’t hide the basic truth, what America is today is because of their own attitude. I reiterate again and again and again, Indian IT people are just a factor contributing to your demise. We just used opportunities that you gave us, we never snatched it from you. It’s your BIG BAD MNCS like IBM, HP, and others who started outsourcing to India. Ask your people why they did this to you?
I am not blaming you people pal, I feel sorry for USites who lost their jobs, believe me. BUt blaming us INdians for almost EVERY problem of yours is hurting!
SI wrote: “The day you hitched your economic wagon to our engine, you abandoned your independence. You cojones are now in our hands and when the going gets tough for us (like the current recession here), we’ll squeeze ‘em till you squeal and make concessions.”
Looks like you are in complete rage over our Folks. Feel free to squeeze us, coz you folks are always good only at doing it. You tried to BOSS The world, you killed the native Americans when Mr.Columbus landed here. You folks promoted Terrorism across the world in the name of PROVIDING FUNDS. AND YOU WASTE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF YOUR TAX MONEY IN A HUNDRED THOUSAND NEEDLESS NUCLEAR TESTS. Wow, Look who’s talking.
All Indian IT Folks, read this, they are gonna squeeze your testicles. To all the INDIAN IT SAVY DUDES who ditched their home country to serve the US: YOUR COJONES (TESTICLES) are gonna get squeezed. Thanks man, please do that. I would heartfully thank you if your folks can do that really!!! Then only some of our Indian IT DUDS OOPS DUDES can realize how stupid they are.
Afterall, INdia lost a lot because of IT. HArdly 5% of our folks screwed up the entire Indian Economy and increased the cost of living to such an extent that the POOR found it impossible to live here.
May your curse be a blessing to the Indian Youth. Hope our INdian Government wakes up atleast now and creates alternate jobs.
Do me a favor will you, if you ever happen to meet Mr.Bush or Mr. Obama, tell them to stop wasting their dicks on the innumerable nuclear tests and weapon programs, maybe then you’ll realize how much of your Taxpayers money can be saved.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
You write: Dude, before you reply to somebody’s comment, try to see their point of view.
1. Not repeat Not referring to your comment.
After several decades on this planet and reading countless words, we now feel that this concept of seeing the other person’s point of view is hooey. That’s not how the world operates at all.
Sad, but true. Sadder fact, it took us so long to realize it.
2. You write: Let’s face it, Americans are now pissed off with Indians just because they lost jobs,
Maybe. But we think most Americans would still have difficulty identifying India on the map.
3. You write: I can still do my level best to change my neighborhood and I will.
Simple but great idea.
4. You write: Indian IT people are just a factor contributing to your demise
Our (U.S.) demise ain’t gonna happen any time soon.
Think, kiddo. With so much weaponry around here (a powerful navy controlling not merely the Atlantic and Pacific but also holding sway over the distant seas like the Indian Ocean, superior air-power and a vast army supported by a nuclear arsenal), you really think we’re going to die any time soon.
No, we’re not boasting. It’s just the hard reality.
America’s current travails (9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, recession et al) are minor blips in the panoramic sweep of its course. Unless a giant meteor changes everything.
You’ll probably not understand this and even think it a vain boast but America is indeed marching to a different drummer, particularly after the end of the Cold War.
read the article…..my favorite comment is the 6th one….
SearchIndia.com Responds:
Nice but meaningless (6th comment).
We thought this story in today’s Washington Post (below) was interesting. And we’ve just given GM billions of dollars to stay in business.
Under Restructuring, GM To Build More Cars Overseas
SI wrote: As we’ve said often, should your well-paying IT jobs go to Bangladesh or Sri Lanka, we know how Indians would react – towns and cities would burn and mayhem would be the order of the day.
Well, our politicians may burn some lorries and buses like they always do. But, the real common men and women in India will go on with their normal life searching for some other alternative. You see we have seen almost everything: Corrupt politicians, blood-sucking businessmesn, nasty autowallahs, rowdies, inflation, rising prices, greedy real estate people and YET WE STILL CONTINUE TO SURVIVE AND live peacefully. Just banning some thousands of H1B visas doesn’t bother us the least, infact our folks working in FACTORIES, MILK BOOTHS, SCHOOLS, Government Offices etc are happy that these IT FOLKS can’t screw our economy anymore.
PS: Please tell this to the hundreds of the IT crybabies who scorned at India and tried to leave to asslick their bosses to go and settle the US, we despise them as much as you do. Please keep those D**kheads with yourself and don’t even ask them to consider coming back. THIS NATION DOESN”T NEED PEOPLE WHO DON”T CARE ABOUT IT.
SearchIndia.com Responds:
You write above: YET WE STILL CONTINUE TO SURVIVE AND live peacefully
That is baloney.
There is so much violence in India that’s often brutally suppressed by the Police and the richer classes/castes that always have a vested interest in the continuation of an unjust status quo. You don’t see it because it never gets a chance to flower into a mass-movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emfP5NT3kqY&feature=related
have a look at this….pretty interesting…..
SearchIndia.com Responds:
Nice to watch but like much of TV it’s superficial.
We’ll watch the second part now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXulLCkDf8Q&feature=related
this is the second part…….loved the tutoring bit in the video…
SearchIndia.com Responds:
You write above: loved the tutoring bit in the video…
The tutor or the tutoring? 😉
Yeah, the 24-year-old Swati is nice (Others: go to 3:43 min on video).
SI wrote: Think, kiddo. With so much weaponry around here (a powerful navy controlling not merely the Atlantic and Pacific but also holding sway over the distant seas like the Indian Ocean, superior air-power and a vast army supported by a nuclear arsenal), you really think we’re going to die any time soon.
So much for so little: Who cares about how much power US has? Your folks have always tried to be the power center of the world poking your nose into almost every country’s internal affairs. Wasn’t it the US which secretly provided funds to the terrorists in Afghan. US scorned at India when we said “Cross-border terrorism” and then realized their foolishness when stung by September 11, 2001. EVEN TODAY, you people still provide funds to PAKISTAN To control terrorism. WHAT”S THE POINT
SearchIndia.com Responds:
You write above: Who cares about how much power US has? Your folks have always tried to be the power center of the world poking your nose into almost every country’s internal affairs
Don’t be naive.
Those who can, interfere in others’ affairs. Those who can’t, moralize about the interferers (sounds like a neologism to us but apt for the purpose of making a point).
Tis the nature of humans to bother others.
Pls read this:
http://indiablogs.searchindia.com/2009/05/05/obama-screw-bangalore-save-buffalo/
SearchIndia.com Responds:
?? Waiting for enlightenment.
Sorry, that was a mistake.
Pls see the following:
http://business.rediff.com/slide-show/2009/may/07/slide-show-1-should-have-been-shanghai-not-bangalore.htm
SearchIndia.com Responds:
Som Mittal talks of protectionist ‘tendencies’.
Folks, let’s not forget India had such ‘tendencies’ well into the 1990s, primarily to protect domestic (Indian) business.
As we’ve always believed, words like ‘protectionism’ or ‘free trade’ are at the end of the day mere words that nations or groups use to justify their present positions. A nation’s first duty is toward its citizens, not to worship at the altar of meaningless shibboleths like ‘free trade’ or ‘protectionism.’
Here’s an excerpt from your link:
Here’s what would happen if your leaders and corporations had sold out your workers (on the U.S. scale in IT industry) to the Chinese or Bangladesh – State transport corporations would have several thousand fewer buses, several hundred women would join the widows club, crores of people would have been inconvenienced because of bandhs, hartals et al, students exams’ would have been postponed because violence forced the closure of schools and colleges ….
Would such a violent reaction be justified? We don’t know the answer but the course of history demonstrates that systemic changes in the face of grave injustice are seldom effected by negotiations or polite calls for a change of course. The American worker is a good example. Beaten down into submission by corporations and the ruling class and distracted by frivolous pursuits, America’s working class has today become an effete organism that breathes or ceases to breathe at the whim of some distant, capricious, gluttonous master.
America may have missed feudalism-I but American workers every day experience the pain of feudalism-II. The only alternative for a secure American job – Join the army and get blown up in Iraq or Afghanistan and return minus some limbs or other injuries and then receive poor healthcare in crumbling veterans’ hospitals. Read the Washington Post stories on how wounded American soldiers are getting shafted.
Hey, did we hear someone say, eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
yo, fake american! you seems you are more patriotic than old Europran settlers. Boss, its their world and you are a “slumdog” even if you have changed your passport and speak better English than them (you are colored or brown/yellow or Asian). Why uneccessary noise when this is the reality in US? Son, sengathir, you seems you depicts the character of new convert – arrogance and stupidity to get attention from “originals”. Please do not cut this feedback if you believe you are an American (even if u are fake). Hope you remember, America stands for freedom of speech & expression!
SearchIndia.com Responds:
1. Don’t worry, son. We do not usually ‘cut’ feedback or edit comments, unless we do. 😉 Your comment (spelling errors and all) is there, untouched by our pristine hands.
2. You write: you seems you depicts the character of new convert – arrogance and stupidity to get attention from “originals”.
Whether it’s India or the U.S., we say it like it is. If we did not have the cojones, we’d not have written this post: Amazing America – America’s Healthcare Genocide at Home
Just because you see a lily-livered poltroon when you look in the mirror, it’s not true of everyone else.